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Lrm Love


15 replies to this topic

Poll: How are LRMs (48 member(s) have cast votes)

Damage

  1. Too Low (14 votes [29.17%])

    Percentage of vote: 29.17%

  2. Too High (4 votes [8.33%])

    Percentage of vote: 8.33%

  3. Perfect (27 votes [56.25%])

    Percentage of vote: 56.25%

  4. I hate missiles (3 votes [6.25%])

    Percentage of vote: 6.25%

Speed

  1. Too Low (16 votes [33.33%])

    Percentage of vote: 33.33%

  2. Too High (3 votes [6.25%])

    Percentage of vote: 6.25%

  3. Perfect (26 votes [54.17%])

    Percentage of vote: 54.17%

  4. I really hate missiles (3 votes [6.25%])

    Percentage of vote: 6.25%

Spread

  1. Too Tight (19 votes [39.58%])

    Percentage of vote: 39.58%

  2. Too Wide (2 votes [4.17%])

    Percentage of vote: 4.17%

  3. Perfect (26 votes [54.17%])

    Percentage of vote: 54.17%

  4. Missiles killed my poptart (1 votes [2.08%])

    Percentage of vote: 2.08%

Tracking

  1. Too Slow (14 votes [29.17%])

    Percentage of vote: 29.17%

  2. Too Fast (7 votes [14.58%])

    Percentage of vote: 14.58%

  3. Perfect (26 votes [54.17%])

    Percentage of vote: 54.17%

  4. Missiles should never hit me (1 votes [2.08%])

    Percentage of vote: 2.08%

Splash

  1. Keep it removed (25 votes [52.08%])

    Percentage of vote: 52.08%

  2. Put it back like it was (3 votes [6.25%])

    Percentage of vote: 6.25%

  3. Add it back but at reduced radius (18 votes [37.50%])

    Percentage of vote: 37.50%

  4. Splash this (2 votes [4.17%])

    Percentage of vote: 4.17%

Ammo per ton

  1. Too few (10 votes [20.83%])

    Percentage of vote: 20.83%

  2. Too many (5 votes [10.42%])

    Percentage of vote: 10.42%

  3. Perfect (32 votes [66.67%])

    Percentage of vote: 66.67%

  4. Any mech carrying LRM ammo should explode at match start (1 votes [2.08%])

    Percentage of vote: 2.08%

Artemis

  1. Too Effective (4 votes [8.33%])

    Percentage of vote: 8.33%

  2. Ineffective (9 votes [18.75%])

    Percentage of vote: 18.75%

  3. Perfect (32 votes [66.67%])

    Percentage of vote: 66.67%

  4. HAX (3 votes [6.25%])

    Percentage of vote: 6.25%

TAG

  1. Too effective (2 votes [4.17%])

    Percentage of vote: 4.17%

  2. Not effective (9 votes [18.75%])

    Percentage of vote: 18.75%

  3. Perfect (35 votes [72.92%])

    Percentage of vote: 72.92%

  4. More HAX (2 votes [4.17%])

    Percentage of vote: 4.17%

What is the weakest weapon in the game, ton for ton.

  1. LRMs (14 votes [29.17%])

    Percentage of vote: 29.17%

  2. This is a biased question (34 votes [70.83%])

    Percentage of vote: 70.83%

Vote Guests cannot vote

#1 Dude42

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Posted 06 June 2013 - 10:53 AM

Since splash damage has been removed, can we get missile damage buffed back up to where it was before splash was introduced.

Also HSR doesn't seem to be working against light mechs. I landed 500+ missiles on an X-5 at 300m, in LOS, with Tag and Artemis. Visually they all seemed to hit. Total damage done to that mech: 54. Terribly Broken.

Missiles need more ammo per ton if the damage is not increased further, for the same reason as above. Armor values were doubled, so it takes twice as many missiles to do the same percentage of damage to the target. The only way this is fair is if we get double missiles, or double damage, with double damage being preferable.

Missile tracking is pretty terribad. Without TAG, even in direct LOS with Artemis all a mech has to do is walk in any direction, even an assault mech, and over 90% of the missiles will miss due to the failboat tracking system.

All in all, while some people may believe LRMs are in a good spot right now because they don't know any better and have only ever known wet paper towel LRMs, I believe they still need some love to be worth the tonnage cost.

Edited by Dude42, 06 June 2013 - 11:00 AM.


#2 Boogie Man

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Posted 06 June 2013 - 11:25 AM

One thing I would like to comment on. The visual missile spread is good but the registered damage is still way too center torso biased. My guess is this might actually be a bug with center torso taking more damage per missile than other parts of a mech, and if it's not then they need to actively put a work around in to fix the problem. The total damage that LRMs are doing is not very high, but they core mechs decently well relative to their lowish damage.

The other problem is there are major tracking issues/hit registring which is deflating the actual combat power of LRM's at 1.1 damage. Light mechs are practically immune to LRMs right now and bigger mechs still can have big chunks of missiles just not hit or register at all for no apparent reason.

#3 Nicholas Carlyle

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Posted 06 June 2013 - 11:33 AM

I can't answer this because of 3 major issues with LRM's.

Artemis is always active even without LOS.

They seem to be "missing" moving targets. Especially lights.

And the flight path is not working properly.

It may be that once you fix all of these you may need to adjust damage down a bit.

But right now due to the missing and flight path issues I'd say damage is fine or needs to be a smidge higher.

The other issue is no one in my ELO bracket anyway has adjusted to missiles. There are no AMS, stupid piloting and a lot less ECM. So we need more adjustment time to really see.

Good players are the bane of LRM's.

#4 Dude42

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Posted 06 June 2013 - 11:38 AM

View PostBoogie Man, on 06 June 2013 - 11:25 AM, said:

One thing I would like to comment on. The visual missile spread is good but the registered damage is still way too center torso biased. My guess is this might actually be a bug with center torso taking more damage per missile than other parts of a mech, and if it's not then they need to actively put a work around in to fix the problem. The total damage that LRMs are doing is not very high, but they core mechs decently well relative to their lowish damage.

The other problem is there are major tracking issues/hit registring which is deflating the actual combat power of LRM's at 1.1 damage. Light mechs are practically immune to LRMs right now and bigger mechs still can have big chunks of missiles just not hit or register at all for no apparent reason.

I think it might be that the CT on most mechs has the largest surface area. All things being equal, if I lay down damage evenly over the entire mech per square inch, the CT would still take quite a bit more damage than anything else, simply due to its larger surface area. I think a better solution might be to adjust the hitboxes(maybe even only for missiles) such that the CT doesn't account for about 40% of the entire mech. The only other solution would be to have missiles avoid hitting the CT, which would require them to fly in a weird doughnut or mech outline shape.

View PostNicholas Carlyle, on 06 June 2013 - 11:33 AM, said:

I can't answer this because of 3 major issues with LRM's.

Yea that's something I considered while writing the poll. My hopes are that people will answer based on how missiles currently behave taking into consideration the currently present known bugs. There's also questions whose answers might change meaning depending on the answers to other questions.

For example, some people may feel that ammo per ton is perfect, but feel that damage needs a buff.
Others may feel that damage is perfect but that more ammo is needed per ton.

These two people want the same thing, missile users to be able to achieve higher damage output with a given loadout. The difference is that one person wants that damage spread out in time a little more(more ammo). But on the poll results it's impossible to tell. :D

Hard to really make a good poll without making the questions overly complex. So for simplicity, just answer based on how you feel they currently perform, without accounting for any future fixes, or changes based on answers to other questions. ;)

Edited by Dude42, 06 June 2013 - 11:52 AM.


#5 Dude42

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Posted 06 June 2013 - 11:51 AM

merged.

Wish you could delete a post =/

Edited by Dude42, 06 June 2013 - 11:54 AM.


#6 River Walker

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Posted 06 June 2013 - 03:03 PM

Overall I think the LRM are coming along.
My problem with them is that the ammo is too heavy for the Dp that they give out.
Ps Narcs need to be worked on. They need more ammo per ton, to be active longer, up to two minutes.

Edited by River Walker, 06 June 2013 - 03:08 PM.


#7 Corvus Antaka

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Posted 06 June 2013 - 03:05 PM

highlander - 2 lrm 20, 3 large lasers. im averaging 600-1000 damage a game. LRMS seem fine right now. lights/fast movers are supposed to dodge lrms at long ranges, lrms are not supposed to track very well against fast targets, hence the need to other weapons to deal with them.

#8 Ashvins

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Posted 06 June 2013 - 03:13 PM

What I want to know is how without being tag'ed or narc'ed lrm's fired well after I have left LOS of any enemy mech can track and hit a mech moving over 100kph? This small fact alone can make them OP.

#9 Aslena

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Posted 06 June 2013 - 03:19 PM

I personally think lrm are about perfect currently. I have 1 mech with a LRM load out and with him he does kinda low damage but the explosive in there face effect making them unable to see well kinda balances this out and drives them back thus fulfilling my purpose. While I'm on my other mechs missiles seem a little harsh because of the blinding effect but I just follow that trail to the boat and sink it.

#10 Mhyth

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Posted 06 June 2013 - 03:22 PM

LRMs could use a little damage love but their flight arc is far too high and steep currently. Rock outcrops, cliffs, and buildings offer near zero protection now. If the flight arc doesn't change they might as well be left exactly as they are.

#11 Ningyo

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Posted 06 June 2013 - 03:34 PM

LRMs have a damage bug, a hit recognition bug, and have problems with hitting moving targets (even under 80 kph). Until these bugs are resolved it is pointless to do fine balancing for them. Right now they are decent enough to use and test the bugs, once the devs fix the bugs then making small changes to spread or fire rate or damage or flight speed, or AMS strength or other factors can be done to try and make them perfectly balanced.

Right now though my answer to your poll is NO CHANGES till bugs are fixed.

#12 Nicholas Carlyle

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Posted 06 June 2013 - 03:39 PM

View PostNingyo, on 06 June 2013 - 03:34 PM, said:

LRMs have a damage bug, a hit recognition bug, and have problems with hitting moving targets (even under 80 kph). Until these bugs are resolved it is pointless to do fine balancing for them. Right now they are decent enough to use and test the bugs, once the devs fix the bugs then making small changes to spread or fire rate or damage or flight speed, or AMS strength or other factors can be done to try and make them perfectly balanced.

Right now though my answer to your poll is NO CHANGES till bugs are fixed.


This is the problem. And this concept that LRM's shouldn't be able to hit a light that's 300m away in LOS seems silly to me.

And it should be INTENDED, not a bug.

#13 pencilboom

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Posted 06 June 2013 - 06:37 PM

what are you talking about? they bumped up the damage to 1.1 per missiles now and LRMs are damn effective ( not saying it's OP ). it punishes people that stands out in the open while missiles coming at them. I've been killed by LRMs since the patch ( yes, it was me being clumsy ) while walking in the open and the LRM boat caught me off guard. It almost feels like LRM pre-splash damage.

and one more thing, correct me if I'm wrong but I think splash damage never got removed. it is still there. they just reduced the splash damage radius.

#14 Sybreed

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Posted 06 June 2013 - 06:45 PM

I voted too low because it's obvious LRMs are bugged when 5 LRMs volleys scoring a direct deal less than 100 damage... but if said bug is resolved it could be pretty damn perfect.

#15 OneEyed Jack

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Posted 06 June 2013 - 07:31 PM

To start, they still need work on spread (obviously). But if the spread can be properly nailed down, then I think the damage needs a buff. I'm not sure how much, because without a proper spread, it's hard to tell. The the flight pathing needs work so they can hit moving targets properly. If the spread is right for a larger mech, then this will create more individual misses on smaller mechs, and keep it from being overly devastating to lights.

Atm, I think effectiveness is about right, maybe just a hair weak, but I think that effectiveness is being reached the wrong way (CT clustering).

I skipped the poll, because I don't think it really encompassed anything useful, and I honestly wish they'd remove polling ability outside mod use.

#16 FupDup

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Posted 06 June 2013 - 07:33 PM

View PostAshvins, on 06 June 2013 - 03:13 PM, said:

What I want to know is how without being tag'ed or narc'ed lrm's fired well after I have left LOS of any enemy mech can track and hit a mech moving over 100kph? This small fact alone can make them OP.

Advanced Target Decay module? Or there could possibly be a hidden enemy that has you spotted for the Lurmboat.

Edited by FupDup, 06 June 2013 - 07:34 PM.






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