123 replies to this topic

[Yanlowen Cage]

I hear the term cheese build a lot. But what do you consider a cheese build? just to get this started, I would say a 6 ppc stalker. and do you believe there are too many cheese builds in this game?

[FupDup]

A cheese build is anything with a very low skill floor yet disproportionally high combat ability. They are especially known for being able to take on players much better at the game than oneself. Low risk, high reward.

[Bilbo]

Any build that forces you to play the game in a manner you don't wish to play it.

[Acid Phase]

In my opinion it's anything point and click instant gratification without the need to work for a kill. In this case I'd have to say any build that switches 1 slot lasers to boating PPCs such as the Firebrand, Phracts, 6 PPC Stalker. Also the AC40 Jag/Cats. Before it used to be Splatcats, but SRMs are nowhere near dangerous as they used to be. Yet I can't blame the players for such builds. It's PGI allowing customization to be abused. Hardpoint size restrictions would cancel that easy.

Edited by Acid Phase, 07 June 2013 - 09:59 AM.

[Kitane]

Any boom* AC40.
Any LRM60+ assault
Any Gauss+PPC boat.
Any 4+ pure PPC boat
...

[Disapirro]

Only cheese is the streak and its negative impact on light play.

[Jestun]

Anything the whiners whine about (want some cheese with that whine?).

I have yet to see any consistency in how the term is applied, except that it's applied to what the poster is whining about.

I find that constructive and useful discussion on balance rarely use the term, whereas some whiners use it in every other post.

[ArmageddonKnight]

'cheese' in an game usualy refers to a strategy,setup,move, etc that requirs low amounts of skill and/or has a high chance of completly dominating or totaly failing.

So for example
A Dual AC20 setup totaly dominates at close range with good aim. But flops if its find itself at longer ranges or missing shots.

A 6 PPC stalker totaly owns if ur ranged by it, but get inside its minimum and its a brick.

Same goes for LRM boating.

[Soy]

History of cheese builds in MWO:

Dragons during knockdowns
Streakcats who'd chain during ****** up screen shake
Craven a week after ecm patch
packs of DDCs camping in 8 mans
Splatcats
LRM boats back in the day when ****** up dmg
megappc boats recently
Jenners back in the day when only needed 1 JJ
heavy metal power build tarts recently
ac40 cheese jager, maybe macro jager but that's kinda meh

that's about all I can think of to be honest throughout the time in this game, more or less

Edited by Soy, 07 June 2013 - 08:58 AM.

[Wolf Ender]

just from reading the other people's posts I believe most will probably disagree with my statement, but IMHO a cheese build is only a build that is

+ exploiting a known bug

OR

+ tactic or loadout that has the potential to succeed with god-like ownage OR fall flat and make you look like a noob


under this definition of cheese the only configs I would really call cheese are things like 6xPPC stalkers, 6xstreak-cats (back when ECM was not countered by BAP) and AC-20 Ravens or Gauss Ravens used en masse, and i remember someone making a hunchback with some ridiculous number of LL's once... also under this definition, doing things like loading up an 8-man with 8 spiders and attempting to cap, would also be considered cheese.

In my opinion, using an optimized config like AC/20 K2s and Jagers is NOT cheese. 4 PPC stalkers aren't really cheese... these are definitely strong builds but they're not ridiculous and they aren't really that overly powerful or overly risky.

[El Bandito]

Being "cheesy" and being OP can be two different things. My Streakcat for example, can be called cheese build, but it is far from OP.

Edited by El Bandito, 07 June 2013 - 08:58 AM.

[Roland]

32nd rule of internet gaming:
All weapons and configurations I use are pro.
All weapons and configurations that my enemies use when I kill them are n00b.
All weapons and configurations that my enemies use that kill me are cheese (also possibly HAX).

[Disapirro]

El Bandito, on 07 June 2013 - 08:55 AM, said:

Being "cheesy" and being OP can be two different things.  My Streakcat for example, can be called cheese build, but it is far from OP.

True now, but was very cheesy in the past.

Edited by Disapirro, 07 June 2013 - 09:01 AM.

[Blue Footed Booby]

Bilbo, on 07 June 2013 - 08:12 AM, said:

Any build that forces you to play the game in a manner you don't wish to play it.

This.

Nobody every calls for their own favorite build to be nerfs. Most of the time what you see is people who call for mechs and builds they don't play to be nerfed because their favorites aren't as effective as they want them to be, like that guy calling dual AC20 builds cheesy, splatapults, and basically any other specialist build cheesy (I get the feeling he wants everyone to have one of those wonky, chimaeric generalist builds??).

Quote

A cheese build is anything with a very low skill floor yet disproportionally high combat ability. They are especially known for being able to take on players much better at the game than oneself. Low risk, high reward.

This is a perfect definition of what cheesy means to me. It's not about how good the build is; it's about how good it is relative to how hard it is to play.

[General Taskeen]

The next camo option "Cheddar" will be cool. It'll make your Mech look like swiss cheese. A Cosmetic option will be a cheese hat for you Mech, 1000MC.

[topgun505]

Anything that requires no significant aiming yet can still deal significant damage (LRM or Streak boats).

Anything that deals out OVER 30 instantaneous damage at extreme range.

Any build that gets around mechanics that are meant to balance the unit (example: pop tarting and shutting down and falling, undamaged behind cover, or PPC stalkers being able to alpha when at 99% heat with no I'll consequence.)

[Unbound Inferno]

The game allows it, it can't be the whiner's cheese. Sorry, its the rules.

It doesn't mean abusing a flawed imbalance is alright, but you can't complain when it works.
No matter how much I hate AC40s when they get close, I can't argue its a valid build.

[Diablobo]

You have to bring cheese to go with all the w(h)ine.

[Shae Starfyre]

I once found myself between a rock and a hard place. Then it occured to me. "what the hell am I doing on this side of the rock?"

I think that is the answer right there.

It is not the mech that bends, but your mind. There is no cheese.

Edited by Aphoticus, 07 June 2013 - 09:55 AM.

[Acid Phase]