16 replies to this topic

[Treye Snow]

So I was reading Paul's idea on the heat additions when firing X amount of the same weapon type and I thought. "Well shoot, that's great for 4/6 PPC Stalkers, but what about the PPC/Gauss combos across -Many- other mechs?"

Do they seriously think it's okay to be able to alpha for anything higher than 20 points of damage to a single point from long range?

This heat change will only remove the 4+ PPC builds, but doesn't solve the issue with 35pt + alphas from PPC/Gauss and other ridiculous alpha strike numbers (See 2xAC/20 (40) 2xGauss (30) Various combos 30-40).

Also, who's great idea was it to make Table Top rules and loadouts on a FPS? Seriously, that's about as realistically balanced as applying Tetris to Mario. =/

Am I wrong for thinking it's absurd to be able to alpha for more than 20 points? What's the point in playing anything other than a/heavy Assault if people can do near or all of your CT/ST's worth of armor in a single hit?

[Pater Mors]

Shameless plug - Sign the petition in my sig. Its spirit addresses exactly what you're talking about.

Edited by Pater Mors, 16 June 2013 - 01:26 PM.

[RiceyFighter]

Well Gauss is "Balanced" because the travel velocity is significantly lower than PPC and that weapon explodes. At longer ranges you will see the PPC hit one component and the Gauss completely miss. PPC and gauss are technically pinpoint, but will be separated at longer ranges.

Is just PPCs. ALWAYS BEEN PPCs. I got no problem with Dual Gauss 1 PPC build.

[New Day]

Mr Terribad, on 16 June 2013 - 01:24 PM, said:

So I was reading Paul's idea on the heat additions when firing X amount of the same weapon type and I thought. "Well shoot, that's great for 4/6 PPC Stalkers, but what about the PPC/Gauss combos across -Many- other mechs?"

Do they seriously think it's okay to be able to alpha for anything higher than 20 points of damage to a single point from long range?

This heat change will only remove the 4+ PPC builds, but doesn't solve the issue with 35pt + alphas from PPC/Gauss and other ridiculous alpha strike numbers (See 2xAC/20 (40) 2xGauss (30) Various combos 30-40).

Also, who's great idea was it to make Table Top rules and loadouts on a FPS? Seriously, that's about as realistically balanced as applying Tetris to Mario. =/

Am I wrong for thinking it's absurd to be able to alpha for more than 20 points? What's the point in playing anything other than a/heavy Assault if people can do near or all of your CT/ST's worth of armor in a single hit?

Why is it wrong to have a 'big' alpha? And for TT they had to start from somwhere.

Edited by NamesAreStupid, 16 June 2013 - 01:40 PM.

[MechGorilla]

I have to whole-heartedly agree with the OP. All they seem to want to do is tweak heat and recharge times and as many before me have pointed out, that is fundamentally not the issue, and for the life of me I cannot understand why.

I've been trying to grind out cicada's lately, and it's near impossible because [at least] 6 out of the 8 people on the other side have 40+ point alphas, and as soon as they see you you're legs evaporate. I understand PGI needs to look at the long term game and things are very likely to change in the [near?] future; but at this point, from what I'm hearing PGI say, and what I'm experiencing in game, I'm ready for a break - maybe a permanent one.

[Pater Mors]

NamesAreStupid, on 16 June 2013 - 01:39 PM, said:

Why is it wrong to have a 'big' alpha? And for TT they had to start from somwhere.

Because big Alpha's are not part of Battletech in the way that they are in this game. There's not a chance you could Alpha 4PPC's in TT without some serious problems. Coupled with convergence and lack of penalties it's forcing this game into a Meta where all you see is Assaults and Heavies packing PPC's and lights and mediums, unless they're played well, have a severe disadvantage.

[Homeless Bill]

If you are not a fan of high, pinpoint damage, this thread may just be for you: http://mwomercs.com/...oats-and-clans/

[MasterErrant]

the planned fix. is a lazy stupid fix for aprobelm that existst because of developer errors. it won't really do anything.all the hex ppc stalker has to do is fire two groups ofm three a half second apart andthis stupid lazy fix is negated.

the problem isn't ppc's it's never been ppcs they do what they are supposed to do.it's that the developers screwed up the inherent limiters for high valuse energy weapons. HEAT.

[Splitpin]

Mr Terribad, on 16 June 2013 - 01:24 PM, said:

Am I wrong for thinking it's absurd to be able to alpha for more than 20 points? What's the point in playing anything other than a/heavy Assault if people can do near or all of your CT/ST's worth of armor in a single hit?

Yes you are wrong in that if we had it your way then there'd be no point to Assaults, they are huge mechs they carry big weapons, that's the point. Battleships don't carry popguns. I'd totally agree there needs to be weight/class/BV something balancing in the game, but not at the expense of effectively removing Assaults from the game.

[Treye Snow]

NamesAreStupid, on 16 June 2013 - 01:39 PM, said:

Why is it wrong to have a 'big' alpha? And for TT they had to start from somwhere.

Well, put it into perspective.

If I drive something with 40 points of CT armor (Basically most Mediums) how is it fair 1 lucky shot can knock out most, if not all of it?

This is a FPS. It's not a simulator and it's not an RTS. Go into any other SINGLE-LIFE game, and you wont find such extreme firepower outside of a sniper rifle or rocket launcher.It doesn't exist. Why? Because Sniper Rifles and Rocket Launchers (Equivlent of Gauss/PCC) are severely limited to balance out their massive damage.

MWO has no ADEQUATE system in place from basically having the equivalent of a sniper rifle's damage with the drawbacks of using such a powerful weapon.

Oh, and before you say "Well this isn't a shooter, these are mechs" then explain to me how to classify this game and balance it.

[Treye Snow]

Splitpin, on 16 June 2013 - 02:07 PM, said:

Yes you are wrong in that if we had it your way then there'd be no point to Assaults, they are huge mechs they carry big weapons, that's the point. Battleships don't carry popguns. I'd totally agree there needs to be weight/class/BV something balancing in the game, but not at the expense of effectively removing Assaults from the game.

You're right. Battleships don't carry popguns.

So why do Assaults have close range capability AND long range firepower? If you want to go your way, assaults should be ****** if you get in close range, which at this point in MWO, isn't the case.

Sure a lesser skilled pilot will be torn up by a medium or light humping their leg, but you and I both know if you're skilled, it's a minor nuisence at best. My DDC doesn't have a problem pegging Meds/Lights humping me because I can easily leg them and end their existance.

The arguement where it takes a group effort to take down an assault only applies to an RTS where there are more units to combine effort to take down a larger opponent, not a FPS with a 8v8 cap. It's like saying it's alright for 25% of an enemy force is perfectly fine to take down 1 person, except that means the other 6 people have to deal with 7, and if there's another assault, you now have half the team focusing assaults.

TL:DR - If assaults are to be the battleships of MWO, then they need to be realistically boned if something gets in close, which is -FAR- from the case right now.

[Pater Mors]

Mr Terribad, on 16 June 2013 - 02:20 PM, said:

You're right. Battleships don't carry popguns.

So why do Assaults have close range capability AND long range firepower? If you want to go your way, assaults should be ****** if you get in close range, which at this point in MWO, isn't the case.

Sure a lesser skilled pilot will be torn up by a medium or light humping their leg, but you and I both know if you're skilled, it's a minor nuisence at best. My DDC doesn't have a problem pegging Meds/Lights humping me because I can easily leg them and end their existance.

The arguement where it takes a group effort to take down an assault only applies to an RTS where there are more units to combine effort to take down a larger opponent, not a FPS with a 8v8 cap. It's like saying it's alright for 25% of an enemy force is perfectly fine to take down 1 person, except that means the other 6 people have to deal with 7, and if there's another assault, you now have half the team focusing assaults.

TL:DR - If assaults are to be the battleships of MWO, then they need to be realistically boned if something gets in close, which is -FAR- from the case right now.

No way. Assaults should be the bastions of the battlefield and should be able to function extremely well at all ranges. They should be, by default, one of the most customizable and versatile chassis.

However, what they should not be able to do, is pack 50t of weapons that are effective at all ranges and in all situations and can all fire simultaneously for super high pinpoint damage without any penalties. That's ridiculous.

Edited by Pater Mors, 16 June 2013 - 02:28 PM.

[Treye Snow]

Splitpin, on 16 June 2013 - 02:07 PM, said:

Yes you are wrong in that if we had it your way then there'd be no point to Assaults, they are huge mechs they carry big weapons, that's the point. Battleships don't carry popguns. I'd totally agree there needs to be weight/class/BV something balancing in the game, but not at the expense of effectively removing Assaults from the game.

Also, if you want Assaults to have the "Big guns" then there needs to be a hardpoint limitation because unfortunately for that entire argument is that even a spider can carry a PPC,

Big mechs use big guns in exchange for moving slower than snails and having little close range power. That's a fair way to use an assault. WoT does the same thing. Heavy tanks are devastating at long range with their cannons, but a medium can turn them into swiss without support because they're so damn slow.

Pater Mors, on 16 June 2013 - 02:25 PM, said:

No way. Assaults should be the bastions of the battlefield and should be able to function extremely well at all ranges. They should be, by default, one of the most customizable and versatile chassis.

However, what they should not be able to do, is pack 50t of weapons that are effective at all ranges and in all situations and can all fire simultaneously for super high pinpoint damage without any penalties. That's ridiculous.

That's fine, but they have to pick which they want to do.

You can't bring a shotgun, a sniper rifle, and an assault rifle to the fight at the same. Assaults want to be feared, I get that, but you can't be an Army of One.

[Pater Mors]

Mr Terribad, on 16 June 2013 - 02:30 PM, said:

That's fine, but they have to pick which they want to do.

You can't bring a shotgun, a sniper rifle, and an assault rifle to the fight at the same. Assaults want to be feared, I get that, but you can't be an Army of One.

Too black and white.

The idea is you can be exceptionally good at short, exceptionally good at long, reasonable at both or anywhere on a sliding scale betwen. That's what versatility is. I agree that you can't be exceptionally good at everything. This applies to all chassis.

Edited by Pater Mors, 16 June 2013 - 02:35 PM.

[Felbombling]

I really wonder what the point of having voice warnings of components being destroyed serves if the game is still allowing Mechs to be vaporized in under ten seconds. The fact that Paul did an 'investigation' into heavy weapon boating and concluded that this heat penalty system was the best possible fix scares the living **** out of me. I don't know which is worse... the fact that Paul had to do an investigation or the resulting theory-craft.

[Lord Rip]

Splitpin, on 16 June 2013 - 02:07 PM, said:

Yes you are wrong in that if we had it your way then there'd be no point to Assaults, they are huge mechs they carry big weapons, that's the point. Battleships don't carry popguns. I'd totally agree there needs to be weight/class/BV something balancing in the game, but not at the expense of effectively removing Assaults from the game.

Guess what , a battleships guns can't hit exactly the same location either. Perhaps the same target but never exactly the exact same location.

[Zerstorer Stallin]

Heat is only part of the problem. Its been said a thousand times: Pin point convergence in a game based on a game that had RANDOM hit locations is just a poor choice. Then the next real problem is a mechlab with no real restrictions. NO ONE does this in the TT board game for the very reasons they have here. ITS NOT HARD STOP MAKING IT HARD!

Edited by Zerstorer Stallin, 16 June 2013 - 04:24 PM.