40 replies to this topic

[Fate 6]

El Bandito, on 08 June 2013 - 01:40 AM, said:

You are a special case, so what? There are some (albeit few) really good Spider, BJ, Dragon and Awesome pilots out there. In general, those chassis all suck within their weight class.

Ok, that much is true. I still think the BJ hitboxes aren't too bad, although it does feel like EVERYTHING hits CT. I originally thought the CT hitbox looked pretty small and the sides pretty large, but it turned out to not be that way. I put an XL in my -1X and have yet to really regret it.

[Kitane]

As long as the missile splash area is set to 5cm size (almost nothing), all mechs should without question take equal amount of damage. The influence of 5cm splashes against various hitbox layouts can be safely ignored. The missile will occasionally land in a border area and affect two components, but it will be a rare event.

PGI should report what EXACTLY is the damage of a missile. The official damage of SSRM is 1.5. If the splash effect adds extra % to the same area, it will apply that damage on every hit, making the missile damage ~2.0 or so per hit.

The test done by OP demonstrates that splash is accounted for on some mechs and isn't on other mechs.

SRMs were hugely affected by the reduction of splash, LRMs as well. And because there is no noticeable difference on damage done by SSRMs before and after splash reduction, Occam razor says that PGI screwed up and SSRMs still use old large area splash value.

[Fate 6]

Kitane, on 08 June 2013 - 01:45 AM, said:

As long as the missile splash area is set to 5cm size (almost nothing), all mechs should without question take equal amount of damage. The influence of 5cm splashes against various hitbox layouts can be safely ignored. The missile will occasionally land in a border area and affect two components, but it will be a rare event.

Clearly this is not the case, as we have just seen. There are definitely mechs that have hitboxes seriously affected by missiles.

[Kitane]

Fate 6, on 08 June 2013 - 02:19 AM, said:

Clearly this is not the case, as we have just seen. There are definitely mechs that have hitboxes seriously affected by missiles.

Which implies SSRMs do not have 5cm splash area.

[Aslena]

They have repeatedly said they haven't changed SSRMs... so I would say they don't have the 5cm splash area, it should be what it always was.

Edited because I needed to remove my aggravation at all the nerf everything so the game has no character to it posts...

Edited by Aslena, 08 June 2013 - 02:56 AM.

[One Medic Army]

Kitane, on 08 June 2013 - 02:20 AM, said:

Which implies SSRMs do not have 5cm splash area.

It's worse than that.
Even if they had 50m splash radius, the missiles shouldn't be dealing more than ~2 per section,
I've had 2 Streak-cat volleys (24 missiles) deal over 60 damage to just my CT in a blackjack. Probably closer to 65-70.
If the damage was more spread out it wouldn't be so much of an issue, and if the extra damage being recorded was from other components being damaged it wouldn't be an issue.

[El Bandito]

Kitane, on 08 June 2013 - 02:20 AM, said:

Which implies SSRMs do not have 5cm splash area.

Didn't you see my previous posts? Even PPCs are hitting multiple locations. This is chiefly a hitbox issue. Some mechs suffer worse than the others.

Edited by El Bandito, 08 June 2013 - 02:52 AM.

[MWHawke]

El Bandito, on 07 June 2013 - 08:25 PM, said:

It hits the arm only, if the arm is big enough (such as Trebuchet, Awesome etc...) or your CT is not jutting forward too much like Dragon or Catapult. In fact, many experienced players I faced used their arms to block my SSRMs and survived even when their CT had red internals.

Yes, the Blackjacks arms are small but getting hit in the side should hit the right or left torso. Have you seen the Blackjack? IT's CT does NOT jut out. And I am experienced enough to know the difference.

[El Bandito]

MWHawke, on 08 June 2013 - 04:11 AM, said:

Yes, the Blackjacks arms are small but getting hit in the side should hit the right or left torso. Have you seen the Blackjack? IT's CT does NOT jut out. And I am experienced enough to know the difference.

If SSRM manages to hit the side torso, the splash has a chance to hit the CT--especially since BJ is a small mech thus its small side torso can conduct splash easily. Only way to prevent that is to have big arms to cover the side torso but BJ arms are not suited for the task.

That's why I keep telling you BJ is the worst medium mech so far. Trebbies, Hunchies and Cents all have big enough arms to block the SSRM and make it splash on the side torso only.

Hell, I consider BJs to be a slow and overgunned light. My Streakcat has harder time trying to kill Cicadas than that 45 tons of junk.

Edited by El Bandito, 08 June 2013 - 04:59 AM.

[MuonNeutrino]

The thing that I find most interesting is that it seems to affect the blackjack but *not* jenners or ravens, despite both of those being even smaller mechs, and the raven in particular having quite close together torso hitboxes that you'd think would be highly vulnerable to splash damage. Especially since it also happens with streaks but *not* regular SRMs, it makes me wonder if it's actually a splash damage effect at all.

El Bandito, on 08 June 2013 - 04:47 AM, said:

My Streakcat has harder time trying to kill Cicadas than that 45 tons of junk.

Well, part of that might be because the blackjack is taking 40% more damage from those streaks than the cidada is. Just sayin.

To be honest, I actually agree that it's not really that great of a mech. I just like mediums, and it's fun to pilot anyway. I just wish I wasn't being punished by taking buggy extra streak damage on top of everything else.

[El Bandito]

MuonNeutrino, on 08 June 2013 - 09:54 AM, said:

The thing that I find most interesting is that it seems to affect the blackjack but *not* jenners or ravens, despite both of those being even smaller mechs, and the raven in particular having quite close together torso hitboxes that you'd think would be highly vulnerable to splash damage. Especially since it also happens with streaks but *not* regular SRMs, it makes me wonder if it's actually a splash damage effect at all. Well, part of that might be because the blackjack is taking 40% more damage from those streaks than the cidada is. Just sayin. To be honest, I actually agree that it's not really that great of a mech. I just like mediums, and it's fun to pilot anyway. I just wish I wasn't being punished by taking buggy extra streak damage on top of everything else.

Just remember--blame the buggy hitbox mech, not the SSRM. SSRM is doing what it is suppsed to do. BJ is just being a bad design.

Edited by El Bandito, 08 June 2013 - 10:12 AM.

[Team Leader]

I think all missiles with lock on are again doing way too much damage to the CT, because of the goofy "splash" mechanic. I say just take it out entirely.

[ShadowbaneX]

Fate 6, on 08 June 2013 - 02:19 AM, said:

Clearly this is not the case, as we have just seen. There are definitely mechs that have hitboxes seriously affected by missiles.

I'll agree to this. My spider still takes almost all SRMs to the CT even when they're being fired from behind me. I can't count the number of times I'm being chased by another quick light with streaks. I'm running, enemy is behind me, chasing me. My rear CT armour is still in the yellow and my front CT is cored out because the streaks whip around me and hit me in the front.

Edit: something to add, re: splash damage specifically, it isn't just streaks. Well, afaik, it's only streaks that will damage you in the front even if the enemy is firing from behind you, but also last night, someone must have landed a really nice twin PPC shot on my Spider as it took off my rear CT & RT armour and then reduced both of those sections in to the Yellow & Orange respectively...either that or it was a quad-PPC hit and two hit RCT and two hit RRT.

Edited by ShadowbaneX, 08 June 2013 - 10:26 AM.

[El Bandito]

Team Leader, on 08 June 2013 - 10:16 AM, said:

I think all missiles with lock on are again doing way too much damage to the CT, because of the goofy "splash" mechanic. I say just take it out entirely.

Didn't PGI say if they remove the splash mechanic, all missiles will go directly to the CT instead of hitting any other parts? Consequently PGI kept the splash.

ShadowbaneX, on 08 June 2013 - 10:19 AM, said:

I'll agree to this. My spider still takes almost all SRMs to the CT even when they're being fired from behind me. I can't count the number of times I'm being chased by another quick light with streaks. I'm running, enemy is behind me, chasing me. My rear CT armour is still in the yellow and my front CT is cored out because the streaks whip around me and hit me in the front. Edit: something to add, re: splash damage specifically, it isn't just streaks. Well, afaik, it's only streaks that will damage you in the front even if the enemy is firing from behind you, but also last night, someone must have landed a really nice twin PPC shot on my Spider as it took off my rear CT & RT armour and then reduced both of those sections in to the Yellow & Orange respectively...either that or it was a quad-PPC hit and two hit RCT and two hit RRT.

I already mentioned in the first page that PPCs can hit multiple parts of the mech--not just missiles.

Edited by El Bandito, 08 June 2013 - 10:28 AM.

[Zyllos]

And this is why splash needs to be removed from all weapons in the game. It just makes things too random and better against mechs with tight hitboxes.

If removing splash is causing weapons to hit the CT more (no idea why or how, makes absolutely no sense), fix it.

[armyof1]

El Bandito, on 08 June 2013 - 10:28 AM, said:

Didn't PGI say if they remove the splash mechanic, all missiles will go directly to the CT instead of hitting any other parts? Consequently PGI kept the splash.

Yeah they said that a couple of months ago and was going to do something about it while all missiles got the nerf. Now a few months later they've done nothing but maybe change some values with splash and the SSRMs still blast your CT. Not really worth the wait if you ask me.

Edited by armyof1, 08 June 2013 - 11:11 AM.

[Gaan Cathal]

El Bandito, on 08 June 2013 - 10:28 AM, said:

Didn't PGI say if they remove the splash mechanic, all missiles will go directly to the CT instead of hitting any other parts? Consequently PGI kept the splash.

This is true. It's why we have splash, but with a tiny radius.

El Bandito, on 08 June 2013 - 10:28 AM, said:

I already mentioned in the first page that PPCs can hit multiple parts of the mech--not just missiles.

PPCs have always done this, I believe that's not per se splash damage, but a larger-than-point projectile physics object.

[stjobe]

Any time I go up against an opponent with Streaks in my Commando, I get CT-cored with no other locations breached.

Streaks working as intended, my shiny metal behind.

[ShadowbaneX]

El Bandito, on 08 June 2013 - 10:28 AM, said:

I already mentioned in the first page that PPCs can hit multiple parts of the mech--not just missiles.

Yeah, I was providing additional evidence to support this claim.

[Kaspirikay]

Really, they should make streaks target hit box locations.