29 replies to this topic

[Krazy Kat]

I have 2 missle hard points. Using LRM15 + LRM5 is one ton less than getting LRM20 or 2 LRM10.

Is this a good idea? I see no disadvantage.

Also, would 2x LRM10 be better than one LRM20 (because of the better fire rate?)

[Flapdrol]

http://mwomercs.com/...s-excel-inside/

Also look at the mech, how many missile launch holes it has, that tells you how many missiles you can launch from a location.

[Aym]

Krazy Kat, on 25 November 2012 - 05:10 PM, said:

I have 2 missle hard points. Using LRM15 + LRM5 is one ton less than getting LRM20 or 2 LRM10. Is this a good idea? I see no disadvantage. Also, would 2x LRM10 be better than one LRM20 (because of the better fire rate?)

Sometimes yes it is better. If you upgrade to an Artemis fire-control system it will add one slot and one ton to each launcher, which may make the 15+5 less disireable than the 20.

[Krazy Kat]

Thanks for the for the link and the tip. I did not realise artemis added slots and tons to the LRM.

[Phatel]

you also miss out on AMS being able to shoot it down. LRM 20 you will get missles thru, LRM 10 maybe, LRM 5 it will kill them all.

[Stingz]

Phatel, on 25 November 2012 - 06:36 PM, said:

you also miss out on AMS being able to shoot it down. LRM 20 you will get missles thru, LRM 10 maybe, LRM 5 it will kill them all.

Only if you fire them separately, firing more than 5 missiles is still going to make some leak though. The Atlas-K though can pack x2 AMS, and shoot down 10 shots.

[Aym]

Phatel, on 25 November 2012 - 06:36 PM, said:

you also miss out on AMS being able to shoot it down. LRM 20 you will get missles thru, LRM 10 maybe, LRM 5 it will kill them all.

5's still get some missiles through. Not sure how it works against 20 missiles being fired from a single LRM 20 v 2xLRM10's, I'm curious if that affects the number of missile shot down.

[EmCeeMendez]

AMS intercepts 7 missles per volley.

LRM-15 is the best bang for your buck on most mechs, because if you mount a 20, you arent able to also add enough ammo to compensate. The power to weight ratio for the 15 is in the sweet spot, not to mention being able to pierce AMS quite effectively.

[Krazy Kat]

Good advice! The more missles you launch the more get through AMS. Good point. Thanks guys.

So 2x LRM10 has a faster fire rate, but 1x LRM20 will have better hits on mechs with AMS. Is that right?

[Konril]

Speaking strictly of standard launchers and not Artemis, go ahead and try it.

Two LRM-10s will fire a second faster than an LRM-20. At least according to the data, It's 3.75s recycle as opposed to 4.75. So if you are firing from a position where you can keep sensor lock, it's going to be 20% faster DPS. However, it's also going to be hotter. The 20 only generates 6 heat, while the 10s make 4 heat each. A total of 8 heat per volley times the faster fire rate means that your 20% extra DPS is coming at the expense of 40% extra heat. If it's an AS7-D Atlas that you are splitting the LRM on the extra heat is not going to be an issue. You aren't going to be firing the AC/20 or medium lasers at the same time. If it's an AS7-K, firing it at the same time as the ER large lasers is going to cause a heat issue.

The 15-5 split is a little more interesting. When mixing LRMs, each "5" is about half a ton weight saving (when NOT using Artemis). So splitting an LRM-20 into a LRM-15 and an LRM-5 will save one ton of weight that you can use for something else. The weight savings does cost you a little more in heat, but it is potentially worth it. I recommend adding ammo. It helps a lot.

Artemis changes the game a lot as it adds a ton to each launcher. If it's a choice between the Artemis-20 and paired Artemis-15 and Artemis-5 then the single 20 may be slightly better. The 1 ton of savings from the split is lost again because of the extra Artemis. So the 20 and split 15-5 weigh the same, but the single 20 is one slot more compact and a heat point cooler. The 10-10 split will also be bulkier and heavier by one ton, in addition to being hotter. However, the split systems still benefit from the faster fire rate. So it might still be worth splitting to a 15 and 5 if heat isn't an issue.

Clear as mud?

About the AMS issue, I'm not so sure. An alpha fired mix of two 10s shouldn't be any different in flight than a 20, assuming the mech was originally designed for the 20. If you are firing a 20 out of a mech that originally had just a 10, then it will get split into two groups of 10 and fired that way. The difference between the alpha and the chain fired against an AMS means that the AMS has more time to shoot down more missiles when they're chain fired.

The confusion here is that if we were talking the old table-top rules, the two missile systems each would run the AMS doubling the missiles shot down and doubling the AMS ammo actually consumed. However, this game is a real-time simulation using real-time rules. The AMS seems to fire at a constant rate when missiles get close. But how many missiles get shot down when you have 100+ heading your way from two or three mechs is really hard to observe.

[EmCeeMendez]

@Konril, no its really not hard to observe. Like I said, AMS can intercept exactly 7 LRMs from the time they enter the 200 meter envelope to the time they hit your mech. A very simple test for this is having a friend on the other team fire an LRM 5 at you, and then an LRM 10. The 5 is completely stopped, and the 10 lets in three missles.

The 15 and 20 are harder to count, but we also have a workaround for that. If you're actually paying attention when your mech is getting LRM's fired on it, your AMS runs at a finite speed. There is never an instance where your AMS runs out of 1000 rounds in 2 seconds, once it has reached max RPM it sits there for the duration of the barrage. Therefore, if we know that it can intercept 7 missles at max rate, that an LRM 15 allows 8 through, and likewise 13 for the 20.

In terms of power to weight ratio, dual LRM 15s are the best bet on most mechs.

[Konril]

That's good to know. What I didn't have is a buddy to test with or a controlled environment. Shooting down 7 from a a single volley is good. But I still wonder how frequently it shoots down that 7. But, at least the immediate questions have been answered.

[Ragor]

I always go with 2x LRM10 (Artemis). Just to benefit from the faster recycle rate or LRM10 and their tighter spread. The increased heat of LRM10 are no issue since I have enough heatsinks on board to keep my 3 MPL cool... And the TAG laser ruins the day in total for my opponent...

Edited by Ragor, 26 November 2012 - 03:12 AM.

[Buck Cake]

As someone who plays cats 90% of the time, I'd go with 2 chain fired LRM20's. I'd steer clear of artemis as you're already stretched for tonnage and space as it is.

[SixstringSamurai]

If you do the 15 + 5 route half of your shots will be shot down by a single AMS even if you fire it at the same time. Its also more heat and cycle time if you wish to fire them both at the same time then using a single 20 while slower to cycle then a 15 or 5 its not by much. If you want to do an almost constant barrage then use 2X10s.

AMS will shoot down 5 missiles per salvo incoming but waste about 30 rounds of ammo doing it.

[LennStar]

EmCeeMendez, on 25 November 2012 - 07:01 PM, said:

AMS intercepts 7 missles per volley.

Thats very interesting because I manage to hit an AMS protected mech with a single LRM5 - how so?
In my experience its one or two LRM that hit the target out of a LRM5 (would mean: 3 shot down, 1 misses sometimes). If running in my LRM-Raven (2x5LRM) I do a respectable ampount of dmg even on AMS protected mechs. Two days ago I fired a few volleys before seeing that there are 2 more mechs - so in the end 3 AMS were firing at the missiles and even then I scored hits.
Thats possible if an AMS destroys 3 LRM - 3+2+1 lets say from teh 3 Mechs. It does not work if it is 7 - 7+2+1 would be enough and they were close enough together.

Besides the number of 7 is highly averaged. There is a big difference in the number if LRM hit betwenn running 100+kps to or from them.
As a scout I know the effects from the other side. A 10LRM will hit me even if I run away. A 5 mostly gets killed. So here, too, not 7 LRM intercepted (standstill counting) or in running away the 10LRM would be killed.

Edited by LennStar, 26 November 2012 - 04:30 AM.

[Shiney]

It depends but generally I go with 15's in boats, best bang for buck versus heat and weight. 5's are good, better to use 1x5 and 1x15 than 1x20 for instance and 20's when you want the most with the slots you have, such as having 2 slots and you want to boat, thus putting in 2x20s in it.

[FrostPaw]

LennStar, on 26 November 2012 - 04:28 AM, said:

Thats very interesting because I manage to hit an AMS protected mech with a single LRM5 - how so?

I believe it works at a percentage, i.e. AMS intercepts 20% of an incoming salvo. It's not a set ammount of missiles regardless of the size of the salvo. It would make more sense that it works this way, AMS is supposed to reduce missile damage not negate it. Which would explain why even some lrms on an lrm 5 will get through. Of course it could also happen if the AMS was already busy working on somebody elses missile salvo and ignored yours completely.

Edited by FrostPaw, 27 November 2012 - 06:23 AM.

[EmperorMyrf]

It depends which you value more, the ability to rock the target with more salvos, or better heat efficiency.

Right now the LRM 15 is the most heat efficient of the launchers, while the LRM 5 is the second worst of the 4. The LRM 20 is barely behind the LRM 15 so you'd definitely see a drop in efficiency if you did the 5+15 combo rather than the 20. But as I mentioned, more separate launchers means you have the ability to rock and disrupt your target. Your call in the end, but I'd always go with the 20.

[PL Harpoon]

That depends on a lot things. What mech are you using and what is it's launcher, are you using artemis, how many HS and ammo do you equip and how do you want to play, Each option has its own pros and cons depending on these variables.