9 replies to this topic

[BootHands]

Sooo, I've read this game is very rock-paper-scissors-y and my question follows from that.

Let's say that the ECM is rock. Well, BAP counters is, so BAP gets to be paper. What is scissors? What gets countered by the ECM, but counters a BAP?

Also, what is the interaction for me if I run both a BAP and an ECM? If I've got the ECM in "Disrupt" mode, do I more or less have the benefits of both a disrupt ECM and a counter ECM, since the BAP essentially behaves like a counter ECM?

Thanks,
BootHands

Edited by BootHands, 08 June 2013 - 08:14 AM.

[Zerberus]

Not everythign is RPS so to speak, thats more the way mech balance is supposed to work, not tech balance.

For ex. In this case ECM also counters ECM, at a distance of 151m-180m ECM completely nullifies BAP, and a second ECM in range also hard counters BAP.

and that just gave me a deliciously evil idea that I must try out later

Edited by Zerberus, 08 June 2013 - 08:21 AM.

[scJazz]

From the Patch Notes that introduced the change.

Beagle Active Probe

- Now counters ECM within 150m.
- BAP will only counter 1 enemy ECM 'Mech within its range
- A Mech that equips both ECM and BAP will only receive the sensor range bonus and the ability to detect powered down Mechs from BAP. Other BAP features gets overridden by the active ECM.

[Koniving]

There's a number of "scissors" here.

There's destroying the BAP. Number of LB A/C rounds will do it. MGs work well as well.

ECM is also scissors against BAP, as there's a range that BAP can't reach. But to counter that BAP has Metal Sheers and it's called Advanced Sensor Range.

Honestly this is rock, paper, scissors, lizard, spock, Goat's Skull.



Where Goat's Skull can ruin any equation just as easily as it fixes them. (I'll let someone throw it in there. Perfect meme moment.)

Edited by Koniving, 08 June 2013 - 09:26 AM.

[Zerberus]

Koniving, on 08 June 2013 - 09:23 AM, said:

Honestly this is rock, paper, scissors, lizard, spock, Goat's Skull.

ROFL, point taken

[FERAL TIGER]

Koniving, on 08 June 2013 - 09:23 AM, said:

Honestly this is rock, paper, scissors, lizard, spock, Goat's Skull.

The image for your rock looks more like fisting, which frightens me.

[Konril]

Here are the rules as I know them.

Mechs have a basic sensor and electronics package that can allow them radar and targeting up to 800m out.

Advanced Sensors and the BAP add 200m each to that range normally. Getting target details is also faster with the BAP and Target Info modules by 25% each. The Beagle probe is also able to detect shut down mechs out to 120m. Otherwise a mech that shuts down for any reason disappears from targeting and radar until it starts up again.

Guardian ECM creates a 180m field with two effects. Allies in the field have their radar signature reduced and can only be targeted up to 200m away, 250m with advanced sensors. Opponents who target an ECM shielded mech have missile locks slowed considerably, if they aren't suffering the other effect. The second effect, enemies in an ECM field are jammed and have their own radar ranged reduced to 200m or 250m with advanced sensors. These jammed mechs cannot lock on missiles or share targeting data with allies. Target details still work, but take longer to get.

ECM can be switched to a Counter mode, that doesn't generate an ECM field, but in turn shuts down one enemy ECM in its 180m range.

TAG acts as a counter to the first ECM effect. If the TAG laser hits a cloaked mech, then that mech will be illuminated to the tagging mech for 1 second. Since the TAG laser fires continuously with no heat, it's possible to keep one mech illuminated for as long as you can keep the laser on target. When the tagged mech is also targeted, the data is shared with the whole team, and everyone gets the benefits to missiles fired (and you get the TAG/NARC pay). Jamming still applies here, so if you get within 180m of an enemy ECM, TAG doesn't work properly.

The new Beagle Active Probe has the same "counter" function as the Guardian ECM. That means one enemy ECM within a 150m range will be disabled automatically. You'll be jammed if there are two ECMs in the area. What the Beagle doesn't do well is to counter cloaking. If the enemy is farther than 200m away, it still won't appear on radar for you to target without the help of TAG or advanced sensors.

Because the counter function is exactly the same function provided by the Guardian ECM itself, you only get one. If you have both the ECM and BAP installed, the BAP's counter will be shut down automatically in order to allow the ECM to work. You still get the sensor bonuses of the BAP. But you will need to switch the ECM to Counter mode in order to counter an enemy ECM, and can still only shut down one enemy's ECM at a time. It's looking like it might be possible for the BAP to restart it's ECM countering if the Guardian ECM is destroyed. But unfortunately, I'm not 100% sure of that.

Does this help you understand what's really going on?

[Splinters]

Seismic Sensor Module = Goat Skull in this iteration of the patch.

It's very OP as ECM and BAP won't change anything if I see 8 seismic events on the other side of a cliff 200m away.

-S

[the wycked]

My question is regarding this bonus from the BAP

25% decreased target level acquisition time (source: mwo wiki)

Does it still work with the ECM module ?

[Hammerfinn]

No, the ECM makes it just like a normal mech targeting overall.