38 replies to this topic

[Icedpyre]

I know the blackjack issue has been discussed to some degree in other threads. I want to point out the flaws of engine rating specifically in the BJ1 variant. The BJ1 can mount a max rated engine of 235. This makes no sense.

[color=#333333]The Spider SDR5k can mount a 255xl engine. The SDR5k is 15 tons lighter, and has a very similar number of weapon hardpoints/locations. It also has more space taken up by things like arm actuators. [/color]

[color=#333333]The hunchback HBK4SP which has more weapons, and on[/color][color=#333333]ly 10 more tons, can mount a 260xl.[/color]

[color=#333333]The Cicada 3M, which is 10 tons LESS than the BJ, and FIVE weapon points in the torso(compared to the BJ1's two), can mount an engine at least 85-rating higher. I don't own one, so I don't know if the 320 is the max engine or not for the Cicada.

Even the Centurion CN9-D can mount a 300, and it's only 5 tons heavier than the BJ1. It also has comparable weapon hardpoints, more armor, and more actuators.

Why is the BJ1 SO crippled in engine selection compared to every other mech in it's class, or the class above/below it? It's not based on mechanical hardpoints in the torso or otherwise. It's not because it has more weapon hardpoints. I honestly just don't get it. Other mechs of similar weight, and loadout restrictions, can mount much higher engine ratings.

Can we fix this and at least allow the BJ1 to mount a 260-rated(or higher) engine? This is the ONLY reason I don't play this mech. I like the loadout options and weapon hardpoints, but the MAX 235-rated engine is a crippling limitation.[/color]

Edited by Icedpyre, 08 June 2013 - 02:08 PM.

[Bishop Steiner]

because max engine cap has always been based off the stock engine (with minor variants added in the quirks). The Stock BJs carry small engines, hence they have small caps. Can't really ask for favorites. And it works fine as is, just takes a different mindset.

[Buzzkillin]

At least get the mech info right if you want to make a point. Spider is 10 tons lighter, hunchbock is 5 tons heavier, cicada is 5 tons lighter.

[Fate 6]

BJ engine sizes are fine right now. The -1X gets a bigger engine and it needs it because it has no JJs, so it can run like a faster 4P (mine goes 110kph with speed tweak and an XL280). The -1 and -3 don't need bigger engines - they can't really make use of them anyway with their limited hardpoints. In fact, I have stock weapons on the -1 and -3, the only difference is DHS, ES, FF, more armor, and a STD200 engine (no empty crit slots in either I believe).

Edited by Fate 6, 08 June 2013 - 02:26 PM.

[Snowhawk]

Bishop Steiner, on 08 June 2013 - 02:10 PM, said:

because max engine cap has always been based off the stock engine

That's right... but they increased the max engine cap for the Centurion (260 -> new 275) and as far I know for the Awsome (290 -> new 300).
So... I hope the devs will also spend a little engine-buff for the Blackjack. This mech desperately needs more speed!

[One Medic Army]

Snowhawk, on 08 June 2013 - 02:32 PM, said:

That's right... but they increased the max engine cap for the Centurion (260 -> new 275) and as far I know for the Awsome (290 -> new 300).
So... I hope the devs will also spend a little engine-buff for the Blackjack. This mech desperately needs more speed!

The slow Blackjacks and the slow Ravens need some speed love.
There's a reason my BJ-1 is listed under "Pile-o-suck" in my sig, thing's only good when I'm ignored, otherwise it's both slow and fragile: free kill.

[stjobe]

One Medic Army, on 08 June 2013 - 02:34 PM, said:

The slow Blackjacks and the slow Ravens need some speed love.

I'd say it's the other 'mechs that need some speed nerfing; the game is too full of too fast 'mechs as it is.

[Waking One]

stjobe, on 08 June 2013 - 02:40 PM, said:

I'd say it's the other 'mechs that need some speed nerfing; the game is too full of too fast 'mechs as it is.

This tbh.

[Spheroid]

I disagree greatly. Any ballistic build is going to use so much mass that using a high rated engine will never come up. The premise of this post is invalid. If you want a fast Blackjack just keep the BJ-1X.

Edited by Spheroid, 08 June 2013 - 02:55 PM.

[80sGlamRockSensation David Bowie]

The BlackJacks role isn't blistering speed like the others.

It is similar to the Urbanmech where is has a small profile and large heavy hitting weapons. Don't scout with it, use it as fast moving damage dealers.

<Play it like a ninja, strike hard and fast then move back into the shadows>

[One Medic Army]

mwhighlander, on 08 June 2013 - 02:56 PM, said:

The BlackJacks role isn't blistering speed like the others.

It is similar to the Urbanmech where is has a small profile and large heavy hitting weapons. Don't scout with it, use it as fast moving damage dealers.

<Play it like a ninja, strike hard and fast then move back into the shadows>

Would be easier if it could carry enough firepower to strike hard, and/or had the speed to move into the shadows before getting slagged.

[Deathlike]

The best you can do on a BJ-1 is something along the lines of 4 LL (shutdown prone, useless when engaged) or the closest thing to a jumping YLW.

The BJ requires a different mentality really...the slowness of a heavy, but the also firepower of one.

Edited by Deathlike, 08 June 2013 - 03:20 PM.

[OneEyed Jack]

One Medic Army, on 08 June 2013 - 03:19 PM, said:

Would be easier if it could carry enough firepower to strike hard, and/or had the speed to move into the shadows before getting slagged.

Gauss and 4xML hits pretty hard for a 45-ton jumping mech. Or AC20 and 3xML.

[One Medic Army]

OneEyed Jack, on 08 June 2013 - 03:44 PM, said:

Gauss and 4xML hits pretty hard for a 45-ton jumping mech. Or AC20 and 3xML.

Moving at 64kph, with an XL engine, with only a maximum of 56armor+28 internals on the CT.
I could get the same loadout in a Cataphract 3D while moving faster and having spare tonnage.

Like I said earlier, it's only good if people ignore you. People look and say "Oh, a blackjack, no threat, ignore" that's when it's decent because the low armor isn't hurting you.

[Bishop Steiner]

Buzzkillin, on 08 June 2013 - 02:19 PM, said:

At least get the mech info right if you want to make a point. Spider is 10 tons lighter, hunchbock is 5 tons heavier, cicada is 5 tons lighter.

pretty sure the Spider is 15 tons lighter, 30 v 45. Ironic?

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 08 June 2013 - 03:53 PM.

[Lefty Lucy]

Deathlike, on 08 June 2013 - 03:19 PM, said:

The best you can do on a BJ-1 is something along the lines of 4 LL (shutdown prone, useless when engaged) or the closest thing to a jumping YLW. The BJ requires a different mentality really...the slowness of a heavy, but the also firepower of one.

It doesn't have the firepower of a heavy. A high-firepower heavy can pack 2 AC20s with a brace of medium lasers if they want. It also doesn't have anywhere the durability of a heavy.

[General Taskeen]

If max engine determines what is "good" then there is your sign that something is either wrong with the game or the player has no idea how to compete in a smaller engine. Some Mechs are a quite bit more challenging, but at least the Black Jack doesn't have a stupid huge-profile like an Awesome or an easy to hit CT like a Cicada.

Small engines are also crippled by PGI's, IMO, backwards implementation of Heatsinks where a big engine can equal a bigger heat cap, and can take advantage of putting more DHS in the engine, rather than a fixed heat cap and better heat dissipation for SHS/DHS. And yet another factor is lack of true mobility features for JJ's. If MWO had MW:LL style jump jets, the Black Jack would have amazing maneuverability/evasive capabilities.

Edited by General Taskeen, 08 June 2013 - 07:28 PM.

[Bishop Steiner]

General Taskeen, on 08 June 2013 - 07:13 PM, said:

If max engine determines what is "good" then there is your sign that something is either wrong with the game or the player has no idea how to compete in a smaller engine. Some Mechs are a quite bit more challenging, but at least the Black Jack doesn't have a stupid huge-profile like an Awesome or an easy to hit CT like a Cicada.

been driving this all night
BJ-fortehlulz
but with a 180 standard (haven't bought the XL yet)
Been getting a 1-2 kill and about 400 damage per match. Can't complain. Once I buff the Engine and unlock the thing I oughta kick the damage up more.

[Johnny Reb]

Fate 6, on 08 June 2013 - 02:25 PM, said:

BJ engine sizes are fine right now. The -1X gets a bigger engine and it needs it because it has no JJs, so it can run like a faster 4P (mine goes 110kph with speed tweak and an XL280). The -1 and -3 don't need bigger engines - they can't really make use of them anyway with their limited hardpoints. In fact, I have stock weapons on the -1 and -3, the only difference is DHS, ES, FF, more armor, and a STD200 engine (no empty crit slots in either I believe).

Nah can always find a use for a bigger engine. I still miss my 140KPH Hunchback-P w 9 small lasers.

[Deathlike]

Lefty Lucy, on 08 June 2013 - 07:04 PM, said:

It doesn't have the firepower of a heavy. A high-firepower heavy can pack 2 AC20s with a brace of medium lasers if they want. It also doesn't have anywhere the durability of a heavy.

Lemme rephase it... it has the power equivalent to a Hunchback. Is that fair?