26 replies to this topic

[l3elthaz0r]

Was just wondering about this. They introduced House Dresari in MW4, and as far as I know they don't exist in the current BT universe

[ThinkTank]

short answer: no. slightly longer answer: none of the video games are canon.

[l3elthaz0r]

Hmm...but correct me if I'm wrong, MW3 tackled the SJ invasion which was canon, though I get what you mean; the events that transpired during the game were not canon. Would've been nice though to have a game based off actual canon and not invent houses like that.

[Khanahar]

The games are not canon sources. They do, however, often cover canon events. Occasionally in deliberately contrafactual ways. (Notably Davion ending of MW4, where you can kill Nondi. Alternate ending of MW2 another good example).

But the MC video games followed canon pretty sensibly, unless you think too hard about how many 'mechs you killed (an "inaccuracy" in many of the games... almost a full galaxy of Jaguars in MC1). Other MW games roughly follow actual events.

Edited by Khanahar, 10 June 2013 - 07:01 PM.

[l3elthaz0r]

Hmm, I see. Was just curious as I've not had much exposure to the books or lore but more exposure to the games. Was wondering if they were reliable sources of information, I guess not.

[Bravado]

Like it was said before. Games are not considered Canon but often cover Events described in Novels and Source Material. That being said, the Events of MW4 are somewhat canonized, which shouldn't be too surprising since the Story was written by Loren Coleman who was at the Time the Main Author of the Novels.

[Stormwolf]

l3elthaz0r, on 10 June 2013 - 06:30 PM, said:

Was just wondering about this. They introduced House Dresari in MW4, and as far as I know they don't exist in the current BT universe

House Dresari and the planet they hold are canon in the BT universe. The events in MW4 can't really be canon since you have two possible endings and neither have to my knowledge been confirmed in a official source. Feel free to correct me here.

At any rate, the game itself takes great liberties in terms of mech selection, there are way too many Clan mechs eventhough the Clan OZ's are removed quite a bit. I would have personally expected to see more Draconis Combine designs since Kentares is only one jump removed from the DC.

Edited by Stormwolf, 11 June 2013 - 03:30 AM.

[Tarl Cabot]

l3elthaz0r, on 10 June 2013 - 06:30 PM, said:

Was just wondering about this. They introduced House Dresari in MW4, and as far as I know they don't exist in the current BT universe

House xxx generally noted that family name as being of nobility. Dresari name appears in the Fedcom Civil War sourcebook and novel the Patriots and Tyrants by Loren Coleman.

As for the game itself, the others have hit that on its head.


[Redacted]

Edited by Egomane, 14 June 2013 - 09:41 AM.
CoC violation

[Mechkilla]

There will never be a game that can be canon. Why? Two just plain and simple things will prevent every game from it:

• First the journey with jumpships. Are you willing to wait weeks to months to reach your next battle?
  
• Second: respawn. There was and will be no single mechwarrior that can rise from the dead (only as legend or when someone was lost and believed to be dead).

Especially the second prevents people to play like a real mechwarrior or let the developers make a canon game. Despite of getting killed often (to have a high K/D ratio), gamers will always risk way more than true soldiers (just to get a high K/D ratio). They hop in the next match 10 minutes later while the soldier has to hope there will be enough left of him for the last service.

Other than that it should be no issue to "invent" new content because the Battletech Universe is such big the books and so can't cover everything (nothing else are doing the authors of new books, they take the old and add new stuff out of their mind).

Edited by Mechkilla, 13 June 2013 - 02:07 AM.

[Exilyth]

Mechkilla, on 13 June 2013 - 02:04 AM, said:

• Second: respawn. There was and will be no single mechwarrior that can rise from the dead (only as legend or when someone was lost and believed to be dead).

Especially the second prevents people to play like a real mechwarrior or let the developers make a canon game. Despite of getting killed often (to have a high K/D ratio), gamers will always risk way more than true soldiers (just to get a high K/D ratio). They hop in the next match 10 minutes later while the soldier has to hope there will be enough left of him for the last service.

Makes me wonder what Mechwarrior would look like as a rougelike

[dal10]

think of this and ask yourself if they would are canonize this weapon. Streak MRM-40s. 40 MRMs that can't miss. you thought streak 6s would be bad? watch a hundred tonner with 4 streak 40s. 160 non-dodgeable damage.

[Nathan Foxbane]

The event that incited MW4: Vengeance is canon. Katherine Steiner-Davion did order Lord Marcus Roland to pacify Kentares IV and Roland did have the ruling family executed. These events are covered by the FedCom Civil War sourcebook. The events that take place in the actual games of Vengeance and Black Knight are are entirely apocraphal. Kentares IV later being attacked by the DCMS and its defenders, including Duke Ian Dresari are rescued by the 10th Lyran Guard is canon.

So yes and no. Strictly speaking the MW4: Vengeance and Black Knight has not been stated as canon by the current line developer (Catalyst Game Labs) nor has it been labeled non-canon by the same to my knowlege. Mercs definitely did not happen though.

[Karl Streiger]

Nathan Foxbane, on 13 June 2013 - 08:06 PM, said:

So yes and no. Strictly speaking the MW4: Vengeance and Black Knight has not been stated as canon by the current line developer (Catalyst Game Labs) nor has it been labeled non-canon by the same to my knowlege. Mercs definitely did not happen though.

I would think that Black Knight is less cannon. However the used Mechs mostly Clan Tech are not cannon eighter.

Most events in MW4: Mercs are strictly cannon: Assault on Hesperus II, Events on Styx in the Chaos March, the Invasion of Clan Jadefalcon, Battle for Tharkad and New Avalon with difference.

[The Basilisk]

It's a bit more complicated guys.
Regarding the BT Universe storyline there was a masaker on Kentares during the civilwar where the whole Dresari blood line perished. But the mechs and the Gameplay in MW4 is completely off canon.

[Gaan Cathal]

The Basilisk, on 14 June 2013 - 04:53 AM, said:

Regarding the BT Universe storyline there was a masaker on Kentares during the civilwar where the whole Dresari blood line perished. But the mechs and the Gameplay in MW4 is completely off canon.

Actually, not so much. The head-canon-honcho has confirmed the following to be accurate:

Quote

As long as a piece of fluff from an official source (FASA, FanPro, Catalyst, Infocom*, Activision*, Microprose*, Microsoft*) isn't directly contradicted, and makes sense, you can assume it to be part of the shared universe.

(*Fluff from these sources is 'canon' in the sense that the story that takes place in the game happened in canon in the same general broad strokes - Gideon recovered the Chalice from theMatabushi-backed Dark Wing; Jason found the Star League cache and rescued his father, then fought with the Hounds on Luthien; mercenaries helped Carver V become Liberty, FedCom forces on Port Arthur disrupted Smoke Jaguar operations as part of Operation Bird Dog, etc. - but the details are likely to be significantly different than the ones you experienced during your gameplay).

Essentially it's not the case that stuff presented in games didn't happen. Just that it might not have happened, and is only valid where it fails to contradict other information.

Mechkilla, on 13 June 2013 - 02:04 AM, said:

There will never be a game that can be canon. Why? Two just plain and simple things will prevent every game from it:

• First the journey with jumpships. Are you willing to wait weeks to months to reach your next battle?
  
• Second: respawn. There was and will be no single mechwarrior that can rise from the dead (only as legend or when someone was lost and believed to be dead).

You appear to confused as to the difference between 'realtime' and 'canon'. If a MW game with a plot had an FMV of a Jumpship transport with a date for the next mission sufficiently removed from the previous mission date then that would adequately inform the player that time had passed without actually making them wait for two weeks, which would be all kinds of derp. That's like saying the novels aren't canon because it doesn't make you put the book down for two weeks if there's any travel involved.


The games are apocryhpa because they've been declared so by the IP holders, not because they don't actually roast you alive at your computer if you overheat.

Edited by Gaan Cathal, 14 June 2013 - 05:08 AM.

[Egomane]

A small reminder:

All Battletech books (Novels, Tactical Readout, Rulebooks, etc.) are still protected by copyright. There are no free copies legally available on the internet.

Please do not post links leading to such pirated content to the MWO forums.

[Stormwolf]

Egomane, on 14 June 2013 - 09:41 AM, said:

All Battletech books (Novels, Tactical Readout, Rulebooks, etc.) are still protected by copyright. There are no free copies legally available on the internet.

The old House sourcebooks were free and available for download at the official Battletech website. You can't download them at this point since the out-of-print section is not finished yet on this site.

The same goes for the all the Quickstart rule books and the Chaos campaign rule set along with the Dark Age stuff:

http://bg.battletech.com/?page_id=27

[Xeno Phalcon]

MW4V I think was almost completely outside of the canon and was only interesting for its fun intro CG (even though said intro also introduced the bastardized Mad Dog), MW4BK Was even worse, but MW4Mercs actually tip toed into canon repeatedly in much the same spirit the MW2 games had done. While the game itself can't be considered canon (For obvious reasons, its more fun to let the player be the hero instead of sitting back with their thumbs up their ***** while peter completed the last fight for you) but if youve recently read End Game it can be fun all the same. (Wish they let us shoot Katharine too that would have made it way better )

[Egomane]

Stormwolf, on 15 June 2013 - 10:36 AM, said:

The old House sourcebooks were free and available for download at the official Battletech website. You can't download them at this point since the out-of-print section is not finished yet on this site.

The same goes for the all the Quickstart rule books and the Chaos campaign rule set along with the Dark Age stuff:

http://bg.battletech.com/?page_id=27

The important part here is "were free and available".

In the past they were freely available but currently they are not.

http://bg.battletech.com/?page_id=34 <-- This is the page with the legal disclaimers. It clearly states that all material obtained from them is for private use only and not re-distributable in any form without prior written consent. No exception for the free stuff. Neither Topps nor Catalyst have given their permission to host those files anywhere else, as far as I'm informed.

[dal10]

Egomane, on 14 June 2013 - 09:41 AM, said:

A small reminder:

All Battletech books (Novels, Tactical Readout, Rulebooks, etc.) are still protected by copyright. There are no free copies legally available on the internet.

Please do not post links leading to such pirated content to the MWO forums.

i am fairly certain that the epub editions of the novels were authorized by the publisher.