8 replies to this topic

[ExtremeA79]

This can sound like a crazy idea and it probably is, but I propose what the title says.
In the novels, mechs could take substantial hits before internals were exposed.
Then the next shot finished the job.
I feel in this game that armor is too easily flayed, and that internals are exposed too easily and take too long to destroy.
Think about this, armor is there because it needs to protect the delicate internals. No mech pilot would ever dare take a mech out with no armor. PPC's could EASILY evaporate a ton of armor. If it can do that, it can CERTAINLY turned everything that the armor was protecting into a molten slag. (myomer, heatsinks, weapons, mech bones, other infrastructure, the pilot, etc)

Edited by Darren Tyler, 03 June 2013 - 03:15 PM.

[Tarl Cabot]

Just a little history.

Are you aware that the devs have already doubled the armor amount during the late alpha/early beta days in order to make the combat last longer? The previous MPBTs utilized at the most 4 vs 4 stock mechs.

As for the novels, should reread them again. Rarely is one mech being fired upon by more than a few mechs, mechs that are both stock and do not have pinpoint accuracy. While a number of the writers mention that many of their mech battles are played out on the board game.

Now for MWO unless stock, most players max out the armor while customizing their mechs for big alpha shots. Take the stalker with 4 to 6 PPC. That is equivalent to several stock mechs, from 2 mechs to 6 mechs firing their weapons.

Doubling the armor is a band-aid fix until the underlying issue is handled, imho the heat scale and its associations. Then again we will soon have 12 vs 12 (/shudders)....

Edited by Tarl Cabot, 03 June 2013 - 03:31 PM.

[Xiphias]

The problem with doing this is that it would make crit seeking weapons like the machine gun even more useless. The only advantage the MG has at the moment is that it is good at taking out components, and even that isn't enough to make it useful compared to killing the target 95% of the time. If you made this change it would be even more useless.

[ExtremeA79]

Then how about actually giving the machine gun some damage to armor? They are known to tear at armor.
There are many balance changes that need to be made, especially for the machine gun.

[ExtremeA79]

Tarl Cabot, on 03 June 2013 - 03:18 PM, said:

Just a little history.

Are you aware that the devs have already doubled the armor amount during the late alpha/early beta days in order to make the combat last longer? The previous MPBTs utilized at the most 4 vs 4 stock mechs.

As for the novels, should reread them again. Rarely is one mech being fired upon by more than a few mechs, mechs that are both stock and do not have pinpoint accuracy. While a number of the writers mention that many of their mech battles are played out on the board game.

Now for MWO unless stock, most players max out the armor while customizing their mechs for big alpha shots. Take the stalker with 4 to 6 PPC. That is equivalent to several stock mechs, from 2 mechs to 6 mechs firing their weapons.

Doubling the armor is a band-aid fix until the underlying issue is handled, imho the heat scale and its associations. Then again we will soon have 12 vs 12 (/shudders)....

I am very aware of that and applaud the changes. I was in the Closed Beta.

"Rarely is one mech being fired upon by more than a few mechs, mechs that are both stock and do not have pinpoint accuracy."

I don't really understand what you are going with this. There are many 1v1 'mech battles and some XvX battles.
Mechs would not have pinpoint accuracy because of a mech running or moving. That is why it is better to stay still when firing, instead of running, because the range is constantly changing and your systems have to adjust for you moving, shifting that 100 ton hulk of meta, which I am sure would affect weapons.
Mechs CAN have pinpoint accuracy, if they stay still and have 100% converged. Stock mechs are common, and alot of mechs are tricked out to a pilots liking.

[Gigastrike]

As the game is now, this would make crit seeking even more useless than it already is. Maybe if crits suddenly worked through armor it would work, but that's another argument entirely.

[LastPaladin]

I voted abstain, because my feelings are too mixed on this subject. You're right in your observation, the internals in this game do last much longer than they should in classic Battletech. Many is the time that I've exposed the center torso on an enemy early in the fight, then watched as they pick me apart before I can manage to get enough shots into that exposed area to finish them off.

However, I imagine that if it were too much easier to crit internals, it might not be a very fun game to play, and that is a pretty important consideration. You can't beef up the armor too much without straying even further from the source material, and it would throw off a lot of other game elements, like the balance between different classes of mechs. So, we'd probably end up with the worst of both worlds and have mechs that just crumple to one or two well placed salvos before we have time to react.

Remember that just by virtue of the fact that we're play a sim and not a board game, we have built-in imbalances, like advantages to direct fire weapons because any schmoe can aim them pretty easily at vital areas. So, if they want to make the game resemble the combined arms combat of Battletech in the meta game, the devs have to tinker with some variables to make it work.

[ExtremeA79]

LastPaladin, on 12 June 2013 - 04:17 PM, said:

I voted abstain, because my feelings are too mixed on this subject. You're right in your observation, the internals in this game do last much longer than they should in classic Battletech. Many is the time that I've exposed the center torso on an enemy early in the fight, then watched as they pick me apart before I can manage to get enough shots into that exposed area to finish them off.

However, I imagine that if it were too much easier to crit internals, it might not be a very fun game to play, and that is a pretty important consideration. You can't beef up the armor too much without straying even further from the source material, and it would throw off a lot of other game elements, like the balance between different classes of mechs. So, we'd probably end up with the worst of both worlds and have mechs that just crumple to one or two well placed salvos before we have time to react.

Remember that just by virtue of the fact that we're play a sim and not a board game, we have built-in imbalances, like advantages to direct fire weapons because any schmoe can aim them pretty easily at vital areas. So, if they want to make the game resemble the combined arms combat of Battletech in the meta game, the devs have to tinker with some variables to make it work.

I understand what your saying and this was just a suggestion. Just to make it closer to lore. It would making crit seeking worse but then we can have thru armor crit seeking but like you said, another argument entirely.

[Gaan Cathal]

Honestly, I'd be more inclined to leave armour where it currently is, and apply any hitpoint increases to internal structure. Destroyed components just don't matter in MW:O because it's so rare to loose a component without loosing the whole compartment shortly after. More internal hp would increase the importance of lost components, and maybe (although likely not) make it viable to intentionally de-fang a mech rather than just burn through the CT as fast as possible, irrespective of target.