18 replies to this topic

[PEEFsmash]

Watch as I get hit with a salvo of LRMs as I'm running directly away, they hit me in the rear, but do full frontal damage, largely to CT. My rear armor remains entirely untouched, even though all LRMs hit my rear, the red indicator showed them hitting me in the rear, but 0 rear armor damage, all front.

http://www.twitch.tv...smash/c/2409326


I would blame the missiles, but I think the real problem might be the completely atrotious Jenner hitboxes, where everything hits front no matter what, and most of that will be CT because of the huge cruise-ship that is the Jenner front CT.

Regardless, something is working improperly when something like this happens.

Edited by PEEFsmash, 11 June 2013 - 01:51 AM.

[Jungle Rhino]

LRMs don't hit front or rear anymore they hit from above - which happens to be classed as front CT most of the time. One of the reasons Atlas's are getting ruined by LRMs so bad at the moment. LRM flightpath is still stupid IMO as half the time you can't even see the bluddy things coming in.

[Squirtbox]

PEEFsmash, on 11 June 2013 - 01:40 AM, said:

Watch as I get hit with a salvo of LRMs as I'm running directly away, they hit me in the rear, but do full frontal damage, largely to CT. My rear armor remains entirely untouched, even though all LRMs hit my rear, the red indicator showed them hitting me in the rear, but 0 rear armor damage, all front.

http://www.twitch.tv...smash/c/2409326


I would blame the missiles, but I think the real problem might be the completely atrotious Jenner hitboxes, where everything hits front no matter what, and most of that will be CT because of the huge cruise-ship that is the Jenner front CT.

Regardless, something is working improperly when something like this happens.

It's a shame that people have been bringing up the broken hitboxes of mechs since CB but PGI RARELY does anything to address our concerns. I think the only times I've seen them addressed is when the head HB is too big and then the raven's hitboxes.

[HighlandCoo]

If they "address them" either by acknowledging that broken hitboxes exist or even confiming they "fixed" some of them in patch notes - that would be an indication to some that they can be exploited.

better to fix it, silently, as and when something is flagged up via support tickets or stat-tracking.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

I'm just amazed LRM's actually hit your Jenner. I use a Highlander with 3 LRM 15's, and most of the time it seems like about 5 out of the 45 missiles actually make contact with mechs moving over 100kph.

[MaddMaxx]

Jungle Rhino, on 11 June 2013 - 01:50 AM, said:

LRMs don't hit front or rear anymore they hit from above - which happens to be classed as front CT most of the time. One of the reasons Atlas's are getting ruined by LRMs so bad at the moment. LRM flightpath is still stupid IMO as half the time you can't even see the bluddy things coming in.

And it is brutal that Betty doesn't tell you 5 minutes in advance that your might be getting targeted too. (Holy Smokes Batman)

[Squirtbox]

MaddMaxx, on 11 June 2013 - 07:08 AM, said:

And it is brutal that Betty doesn't tell you 5 minutes in advance that your might be getting targeted too. (Holy Smokes Batman)

It would be nice if you got some kind of indication that you are TAGed/NARCed as well. Teammates can tell but for some reason you yourself cannot. I know there have been plenty of times I've though I was in cover only to hear missiles incoming with no idea how I'm being spotted.

[LordBraxton]

yeah it isnt just the jennie

LRMs are coring everyone out like streaks from above

[PEEFsmash]

I'm really hoping for a dev response, or a more active discussion on this...It is a really big and direct problem with undeniable evidence of something being wrong. Maybe it's so clear that it's boring.

[One Medic Army]

Nicholas Carlyle, on 11 June 2013 - 06:57 AM, said:

I'm just amazed LRM's actually hit your Jenner. I use a Highlander with 3 LRM 15's, and most of the time it seems like about 5 out of the 45 missiles actually make contact with mechs moving over 100kph.

LRMs travel 120m/s, which equates to 432km/h.
It's easy to reach cover in a light before they land, it's questionable if the cover will help, and it's questionable if the light will get fragged for standing still behind it.

Anyone have any clues if target retention locks count as direct or indirect?
If I'm locked within LoS, break LoS behind a building, and target retention keeps me locked: does it use the direct fire or indirect-fire trajectory? I'd ask if Artemis affects, but I'm not aware they fixed it from affecting indirect fire yet.

[PEEFsmash]

One Medic Army, on 11 June 2013 - 11:10 AM, said:

LRMs travel 120m/s, which equates to 432km/h.
It's easy to reach cover in a light before they land, it's questionable if the cover will help, and it's questionable if the light will get fragged for standing still behind it.

Anyone have any clues if target retention locks count as direct or indirect?
If I'm locked within LoS, break LoS behind a building, and target retention keeps me locked: does it use the direct fire or indirect-fire trajectory? I'd ask if Artemis affects, but I'm not aware they fixed it from affecting indirect fire yet.

Well it is plain to see that nobody had LoS on me for at least 3 seconds in this video, but most damage went to CT.

[Chemie]

you could also make a video where a laser is shot at the jenners back and the CT lights up too. Jenner hitbox is bugged

Plus spider hitboxes are bugged.

Plus damage transfer for cents is bugged.

Of all of these, I actually think LRM hitting jenner might make sense to go to CT given how friggin big the CT is on the jenner (as in a large nose sticking out)

Edited by Chemie, 11 June 2013 - 02:08 PM.

[Profiteer]

You haven't noticed the increase of LRMs lately?

With a lot of mech's heads counting as CT, there's hardly any point in even torso twisting as LRMs come down from such a steep angle they hit your head (CT) anyway.

[Slab Squathrust]

I've complained about that too recently. My CT can be at maximum angle (90 or more depending on the atlas twist range) and the missiles still mostly smash into the center torso. I haven't noticed this as much in other mechs. Why torso twist if it does no good?

In response to the jenner, I haven't noticed this as much. I rarely seem to even get hit by them. However I often see damage to the back of the CT inappropriately attributed to the front. Glad to see it's not just me.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

One Medic Army, on 11 June 2013 - 11:10 AM, said:

LRMs travel 120m/s, which equates to 432km/h.
It's easy to reach cover in a light before they land, it's questionable if the cover will help, and it's questionable if the light will get fragged for standing still behind it.

Anyone have any clues if target retention locks count as direct or indirect?
If I'm locked within LoS, break LoS behind a building, and target retention keeps me locked: does it use the direct fire or indirect-fire trajectory? I'd ask if Artemis affects, but I'm not aware they fixed it from affecting indirect fire yet.

Not talking about cover.

Talking about missing.

Right now due to what I can only attribute to the flight path having an extreme downward drop at the end, missiles literally miss moving targets.

I can have a Jenner or any other light at 300-400m running around in the open, with LOS, and still most of my missiles miss, because they drop so dramatically, even with LOS.

It literally would take me 10+ volley's of 45 LRMs to kill one. And even then it's not normally my weapons doing the damage.

I really have a hard time believing anyone piloting a light is having issues with LRM's unless they are doing something stupid like getting behind cover and stopping.

As long as you are moving, you will cut down LRM damage dramatically.

[One Medic Army]

Nicholas Carlyle, on 11 June 2013 - 04:04 PM, said:

Not talking about cover.

Talking about missing.

Right now due to what I can only attribute to the flight path having an extreme downward drop at the end, missiles literally miss moving targets.

I can have a Jenner or any other light at 300-400m running around in the open, with LOS, and still most of my missiles miss, because they drop so dramatically, even with LOS.

It literally would take me 10+ volley's of 45 LRMs to kill one. And even then it's not normally my weapons doing the damage.

I really have a hard time believing anyone piloting a light is having issues with LRM's unless they are doing something stupid like getting behind cover and stopping.

As long as you are moving, you will cut down LRM damage dramatically.

Good to know that the survival strategy vs LRMs has drastically changed again.
Guess it's back towards where it was in CB where moving at anything past 115kph made you immune.

[3rdworld]

Speaking of Jenners and missiles.

Community: Hey guys there is something up with Jenner hitboxes, streaks always seem to hit their CT.

PGI: Oh, really? Let me check it out

Time passes....

PGI: Okay we are nerfing streaks.

[PEEFsmash]

Nicholas Carlyle, on 11 June 2013 - 04:04 PM, said:

Not talking about cover.

Talking about missing.

Right now due to what I can only attribute to the flight path having an extreme downward drop at the end, missiles literally miss moving targets.

I can have a Jenner or any other light at 300-400m running around in the open, with LOS, and still most of my missiles miss, because they drop so dramatically, even with LOS.

It literally would take me 10+ volley's of 45 LRMs to kill one. And even then it's not normally my weapons doing the damage.

I really have a hard time believing anyone piloting a light is having issues with LRM's unless they are doing something stupid like getting behind cover and stopping.

As long as you are moving, you will cut down LRM damage dramatically.

This thread isn't about LRM balance. It isn't about how hard it is for you to hit lights with LRMs. I just showed what could only be considered a perfectly executed evasion, pointing directly away, finding the best cover I could, and all LRMs hit me in the front CT even though I was running full-speed directly away, facing directly away. My CT was light orange damage, so it took probably 12ish damage from those LRMs...

[Nicholas Carlyle]

PEEFsmash, on 11 June 2013 - 04:44 PM, said:

This thread isn't about LRM balance. It isn't about how hard it is for you to hit lights with LRMs. I just showed what could only be considered a perfectly executed evasion, pointing directly away, finding the best cover I could, and all LRMs hit me in the front CT even though I was running full-speed directly away, facing directly away. My CT was light orange damage, so it took probably 12ish damage from those LRMs...

You obviously had trouble understanding what I posted.

The problem with LRM's currently, is they come straight down at a violent angle.

If you are facing directly away and running in a straight line, you are playing COMPLETELY into their strengths.

Because they are faster than you, they are going to track over top of you, then come STRAIGHT down onto you.

And this is a problem with hitboxes, but when a weapon comes straight down on you, it's hitting your front torso or sometimes in the case of Catapults your head.

It won't hit your rear torso really.

Now, on the other hand, if you were moving horizontally, most of those missiles would miss, because they will try to track you in a straight line, then come straight down, but you will be in a different spot and most will impact the ground.

So here is how you beat LRM's...aside from the obvious ECM and AMS.

Run perpendicular to the LRM's, DO NOT STOP, EVEN IN COVER. And maintain speed.

The main thing here, is to use your situational awareness to track where the missiles are coming from so you can do that.

But it's really not hard.

I dodge LRM's in a 64 KPH Highlander the exact same way.