12 replies to this topic

[90upznoobz]

This is my first MechWarrior game and I started only a couple months back. I'm unfamiliar with the old repair and reload system, and to whatever else they removed or added to this game, I'm oblivious.

I want to discuss Ferro Fibrous Armor and Endo-Steel Structure.

I always tend to take them because all they seem to be doing is taking out some tonnage off of my mechs. However, most of the builds I see posted on this forum just run standard Armor and Structure. Why is this? Does FFA and ESS have some sort of hidden downside?

I think I recall them taking up extra slots or something like that, but I have so many slots I don't know what to do with them. I run Commandos 1B, 1D, and 2D, as well as a Cicada 2A.

Thanks in advance.

[Autobot9000]

It is correct, that both save you tonnage, endosteel saves more tonnage than ferro fibrous. Another option (altho pricey) is to consider an XL engine, that will save you even more tonnage at a smaller expense of free slots. Endo/Ferro take 14 slots/spaces from your mech, XL engines take only 6 spaces. On light mechs you can often do all 3 together, on medium and up ferro fibrous often doesn't pay off, because you may need the free spaces for equipment. XL engines make your mech vulnerable for engine damage, because that engine extends into your side torsos. Hence any mech with a siginicant side torso size carries a large risk with an XL engine. Last but not least XL engines are extremely expensive, as expensive as a whole new mech.
As a last word of advice I would buy endo steel for your first new mech and use the freed up tonnage and gain some experience in the game before investing into something like XL engines.

Edit:
You probably want to try out your mech configuration before actually buying things with CBills/MC, check this link out
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...echlab#modified

Edited by Autobot9000, 11 June 2013 - 09:20 AM.

[Dragoon20005]

you might want to read up about endo steel and XL engine in the below links

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Endo_Steel

http://www.sarna.net...ion_Engine_-_XL

[Mahws]

You're running light mechs (The Cicada is an over-sized light). For you Endo-Steel and XL Engines are always a must. Usually FF as well.

For bigger mechs it's often not worth it. Big weapons take up more slots, so Endo-Steel sometimes won't fit. Most mechs usually have room for it though. Ferro-Fibrous is very rarely used, it gives less tonnage per slots compared to ES and there's rarely room for both.

As for XL engines, they're useful for lights that really benefit from the massive boost to free tonnage. However they take up slots in both side torsos, so you die when you lose a side torso. That's a vulnerability that most heavier mechs don't get enough advantage from to risk.

Edit:
The other thing to mention of course is Double Heatsinks. Unlike Endo, FF and XL Engines Double Heatsinks are almost ALWAYS a huge improvement. Each engine over a 250 rating gets a free ten invisible heatsinks inside the engine. Double Heatsinks are worth 2 standard heatsinks inside the engine and 1.4 outside. Which means you're getting the equivelant of ten free single heatsinks in the engine for no extra cost of tonnage or slots, a huge, huge advantage.

Engines below 250 need an extra external heatsink for every 25 engine points below (1 at 225, 2 at 200, etc). These operate as standard external heatsinks, which is one of the reasons the Commando is thought of as such a weak option, not only does it lose slots for having to have two external heatsinks, it doesn't even get as much cooling as a 250+ engine.

Only Streak SRM2 boating Commando-2D's and Medium Laser boating XL Engine Assaults are better off with Single Heatsinks. The Commando 2D because streaks are relatively low heat and between the XL Engine/Endo you simply can't fit in two 3 slot double heatsinks. The Assualts because they have far more tonnage than slots. Though Medium laser boating XL Engine Assaults is a moot point, as no one uses them. On anything else they're a straight upgrade and should be equipped if you want to be competitive.

Edited by Mahws, 11 June 2013 - 06:21 PM.

[howlingchiken]

I went and tried to put endosteel on a highlander but didn't like it. So I went back to standard armor only to find I had to buy it. And when I did buy it I couldn't it compare with the endosteel upgrade because they wanted you to buy it again. WTH, don't I own an upgrade I bought? The same goes for switching out standard and artemis upgrades. I can switch out artemis that I own on clan mechs but not IS? Is this a bug?

[Tim East]

Necro-o'clock? Nice.

@chiken: Which is it, endo-steel structure, or ferro-fibrous armor?

[Void Angel]

Dragoon20005, on 11 June 2013 - 05:26 PM, said:

you might want to read up about endo steel and XL engine in the below links

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Endo_Steel

http://www.sarna.net...ion_Engine_-_XL

Do not quote Sarna as a reference for gameplay!

Sarna is great for trivia; but it is not an authoritative reference for MWO, and in most cases doesn't even provide game data. MWO has made important departures from the Classic BAttletech tabletop game, so referencing Sarna.net - or the tabletop rulebooks - isn't helpful when someone asks how to use equipment in this game.

Edited by Void Angel, 04 January 2015 - 09:59 AM.

[Escef]

Void Angel, on 04 January 2015 - 09:56 AM, said:

Do not quote Sarna as a reference for gameplay!

Do not reply to posts from over a year and half ago!

[Void Angel]

But it's so much FUN!

Also, no one checks every post to see if someone has randomly resurrected an old post unless there is time-sensitive context, and not often even then.

Besides, the point still stands.

[NUJRSYDEVIL]

I could be wrong but I don't believe a Cataphract can run FF. It is the only mech in the game to my knowledge where it's not even a possibility.

[Escef]

NUJRSYDEVIL, on 08 January 2015 - 07:05 AM, said:

I could be wrong but I don't believe a Cataphract can run FF. It is the only mech in the game to my knowledge where it's not even a possibility.

I have no idea how you came to this conclusion. Hell, I run my 1X 'phract with 2xPPC, AC20, 280 std engine, endo steel, and ferro armor.

[Neput Z34]

Some one had to "necro-post" / "resurrect" this thread to the land of current threads, let's see if can "zombie" like a CN9-A.

Majority of mechs 40 tons and under, can run all of the following: Endo, Fero, DHS and XL engines.
Exceptions being: COM-2D - not enough crit space; Variants of FS9 with XL280 that need room for Extra DHS

The only reason to go Endo + Fero on anythig 50 ton and above is so that you can cram in there a larger STD Engine, or you have crit space but need another ton of ammo or both:
HBK-4G and HBK-4H, CTF-2X , ON1-K , CN9-AL and most other CN9s , JM6-A not ideal but workable.

There are a few edge cases that are 50+ tons and can use Endo + Fero + DHS + XL:
TBT-3C , SHD-2D2

* Select ammo placement with great care, I just thrown it in there for "demo" / demonstration

Edited by Neput Z34, 08 January 2015 - 06:01 PM.

[Escef]

Neput Z34, on 08 January 2015 - 05:56 PM, said:

There are a few edge cases that are 50+ tons and can use Endo + Fero + DHS + XL:
TBT-3C , SHD-2D2

* Select ammo placement with great care, I just thrown it in there for "demo" / demonstration

CPLT-K2