36 replies to this topic

[Lefteye Falconeer]

What annoys me the most is the 150% threshold. What the hell is that? 125% would already be generous. But 150%? Makes no sense. And I understand with the new penalties it will be easier to overheat, eventually. But still, 150% sounds like just too much and almost pointless. Especially considering it's not that you blow up when you get there, no. You simply "start taking damage". Well, that should start AS SOON as you get over 100%.

[Stat1cVoiD]

I have not a single boat in my arsenal, but I honestly dislike this change.
While tryin to fix the PPC boat problematic it is basically ninja nerfing light and medium mechs more than the stalker.
I do not play a single medium Mech because I think that they are sub par in the current metagame and the best "medium" Mech is imho the Dragon right now. Only the CN9 remains viable.
By implementing this mechanic Mediums will be nerfed heavily because some of them simply cannot NOT boat weapons efficiently.
And light mechs will also be heavily ninja nerfed again (after JJ shake, which was adressed at HGNs and CTFs).

Edited by Stat1cVoiD, 11 June 2013 - 12:29 PM.

[Bilbo]

Stat1cVoiD, on 11 June 2013 - 12:28 PM, said:

I have not a single boat in my arsenal, but I honestly dislike this change.
While tryin to fix the PPC boat problematic it is basically ninja nerfing light and medium mechs more than the stalker.
I do not play a single medium Mech because I think that they are sub par in the current metagame and the best "medium" Mech is imho the Dragon right now. Only the CN9 remains viable.
By implementing this mechanic Mediums will be nerfed heavily because some of them simply cannot NOT boat weapons efficiently.
And light mechs will also be heavily ninja nerfed again (after JJ shake, which was adressed at HGNs and CTFs).

How, exactly, exactly would it nerf medium and light mechs?

[IceSerpent]

Bilbo, on 11 June 2013 - 12:30 PM, said:

How, exactly, exactly would it nerf medium and light mechs?

A lot of them rely on boating small weapons by design, while heavies and assaults usually pack fewer, but larger guns.

[Bilbo]

IceSerpent, on 11 June 2013 - 12:48 PM, said:

A lot of them rely on boating small weapons by design, while heavies and assaults usually pack fewer, but larger guns.

More than 6? Other than the 4p, nothing else is really affected and the 4p barely so.

[HeavyRain]

IceSerpent, on 11 June 2013 - 12:48 PM, said:

A lot of them rely on boating small weapons by design, while heavies and assaults usually pack fewer, but larger guns.

So how many lights boat more than 6 Medium Lasers?
Because i haven't read the limit for any other weapon in the announcement.

[IceSerpent]

HeavyRain, on 11 June 2013 - 12:52 PM, said:

So how many lights boat more than 6 Medium Lasers?
Because i haven't read the limit for any other weapon in the announcement.

Read it again? The limit of 6 is apparently subject to change, not to mention that there are a couple of mediums that can mount more than 6.

Bilbo, on 11 June 2013 - 12:50 PM, said:

More than 6? Other than the 4p, nothing else is really affected and the 4p barely so.

BJ-1X mounts 8.

Edited by IceSerpent, 11 June 2013 - 01:01 PM.

[HeavyRain]

Subject to change can mean more than 6 or less than 6.
And that's the ONLY information we have to go on thus far.
Oh yeah, we also have this:
"At the end of the day, some weapons may never see a heat penalty the others will and in the long run, we hope this encourages a more varied build of player Mechs or make players much more aware of their heat management."
I need more info before I raise my pitchfork.

[Dedzone]

Hey Paul, here is a much better idea than you guys trying to complicate things by a factor of x100. Simply remove the heat threshold that adding more heat-sinks gives a mech. Heat-sinks have NEVER increased the amount of heat anything could initially handle. heat-sinks simply give the mech an increased ability to dissipate that heat once it is there.

Get rid of the increased threshold and give the double sinks their double heat dissipation value as they should be and the heat problem of people firing 9 medium lasers or 6 PPCs will fix itself. Since adding heat-sinks currently increases the initial amount of heat a mech can take, THAT has caused a major problem.

Get back to basics and just stop trying to make things so damn complicated guys!!! You are falling into the same trap just about every developer has made, and it just snowballs things and screws it up even more and more.

[IceSerpent]

HeavyRain, on 11 June 2013 - 01:07 PM, said:

I need more info before I raise my pitchfork.

Look at the assaults and heavies - twin AC20 / twin gauss builds are unaffected, 2 erppc + gauss builds are unaffected, 3 ppc + gauss builds are unaffected, quad ppc / quad erppc builds will simply swap 1 or 2 of ppc for er ones (or the other way around). The only builds that are affected are 5-6 ppc Stalkers that nobody takes seriously anyway, so what's the point of doing all that stuff?

[Trauglodyte]

I would wager to guess that the system considers an ER and normall version of the weapon to be the same. But no, this does absolutely nothing about the twin PPC/heavy ballistic option currently in game. And the heat penalties are laughable...if I roll with 4 PPCs, I'll generate and additional 20 heat per alpha? OH NO, my target is still almost dead.

[MavRCK]

Lefteye, on 11 June 2013 - 12:18 PM, said:

What annoys me the most is the 150% threshold. What the hell is that? 125% would already be generous. But 150%? Makes no sense. And I understand with the new penalties it will be easier to overheat, eventually. But still, 150% sounds like just too much and almost pointless. Especially considering it's not that you blow up when you get there, no. You simply "start taking damage". Well, that should start AS SOON as you get over 100%.

On the bright side, there is less RNG: a defined threshold and a reproducible pattern to start and stop taking damage. This is *good*.


The debate about what the threshold should be is another question all together.

IceSerpent, on 11 June 2013 - 01:13 PM, said:

Look at the assaults and heavies - twin AC20 / twin gauss builds are unaffected, 2 erppc + gauss builds are unaffected, 3 ppc + gauss builds are unaffected, quad ppc / quad erppc builds will simply swap 1 or 2 of ppc for er ones (or the other way around). The only builds that are affected are 5-6 ppc Stalkers that nobody takes seriously anyway, so what's the point of doing all that stuff?

Autocannons including gauss weigh much more than a PPC and have limitations / weaknesses involving their ammo (or themselves in the case of gauss)...

swapping out 1 or more ppcs is actually a good thing

[Liberator]

This is all good news you doom sayers, but i agree that heatsinks should not increase threshold, only dissapation rate.
True 2.0 sinks would also benefit those that run smaller engines.

[NRP]

This seems like a terribly misguided idea. I hope the whiners still be happy when their 4-6 ML Jenners, Cicadas, etc., start heatstroking like a 6 PPC stalker.

I guess it's time to sell my Hunchie 4P. The only advantage of this variant is the 9 ML alpha, but it's already a heatstroke waiting to happen and the proposed change with just make it worse. God, this just sucks.

Oh well, at least the new Titan Fall E3 game play video looked good.

[StonedVet]

3rdworld, on 11 June 2013 - 11:51 AM, said:

No I am pissed cause it is a stupid bandaid fix.

Wow you are not going to see 6 ppc stalkers, but they were never the problem anyways. What you will see are more 3 ppc + gauss misery. And 3 ppc gauss highlander cause the changes are doing nothing to them.

Keep projecting.

Never had an issue with the 3ppc misery or highlander and now that JJ's are useless ( to an extent) on the HGN, I don't fear these builds.

[Chavette]

Lefteye, on 11 June 2013 - 12:18 PM, said:

What annoys me the most is the 150% threshold. What the hell is that? 125% would already be generous. But 150%? Makes no sense. And I understand with the new penalties it will be easier to overheat, eventually. But still, 150% sounds like just too much and almost pointless. Especially considering it's not that you blow up when you get there, no. You simply "start taking damage". Well, that should start AS SOON as you get over 100%.

150% would actually still make a difference for me... from my calculations, I've positively hit 200%+ numerous times, and in actual matches. I play that hardcore.

What bothers me though is the 90t+ dual gauss mech that will eventually come, wont be affected by this... are they gonna make up some rules because they forgot not all weapons generate heat and are nerfed by heat nerfs?

[Weztside]

"(Keep in mind these numbers are for demonstration purposes only)"
Stop complaining. We haven't seen the numbers for the actual changes yet. Even if those numbers are going to be implemented they are still subject to tuning just like every other aspect of this game. How can putting limits on boating and high alpha builds be a bad thing? They needed to reign those builds in to make room for some actual variety!