30 replies to this topic

[Ragnar Darkmane]

Skyfaller, on 19 June 2013 - 12:07 PM, said:

Thats a misconception brought by those who are used to brawling with other mechs. The trick to the stalker is to point your nose at whoever is shooting at you. The side torsos are VERY hard to hit when the stalker's nose is aimed at you. Most people driving stalkers wave the nose back and forth ...something that in other mechs distributes the damage across the chest. Good for them, not good for stalker.

I run all my stalkers with XL's and never really have any problems. If I die because of a side torso being blown it will be not but a shot or two before my CT would've been blown as well (red or no armor in CT).

That is debatable. You still die faster than with a STD engine (and those 2-3 shots it would have taken your enemy to fry your CT might not even have happened because you killed him with your remaining half of your guns [especially true if your opponent just alphaed and overheated to finish you off and destroyed your side torso by choice or because he missed the CT], someone else saved your *** by killing him or you pulled back at the right time behind cover [quite easy to do in sniper duels] and a living mech (even one with no guns left) will always be a better asset for your team than a dead one.

Even if that means that you buy your team (or your lance/friends if you stick together) more time by turning your Stalker to the side so your enemy can only fire on your other remaining side torso or the legs (in other words: he will have to kill YET another side torso before he can finish you off, even though he might be close to overheating and taking a beating from your mates). I had an INSANE number of matches where one of my side torsos was blown off (as I said that happens 95% of the time if you lose modules), my CT had no or minimum armor left and I still dealt damage, made kills and survived the match or capped and won the match.

Please don't assume that I do not respect your opinion, I really do, but in all honesty you can't really judge the value of being alive with a lost side torso because you simply see the "you died" screen whenever one of your CTs blows up. Even if just by chance (usually you don't have to rely on chance when you got skill, which you surely have) your opponents miss your critical CT and hit the other ST (or the destroyed one which only inflicts 25% of the damage to the CT) you survive it is still more likely to deal high damage numbers than if you just bet on a heavier loadout and die to ST destruction all the time.
You might say that you used STD engine and you are better with a XL version but that means little because we improve all the time. I started the game with a C1 cat and found MLs to be terrible, even though everyone told me they are better 'cause more balanced than MPLs. I just did better with MPLs. Then I changed back to MLs a few hundred matches later and found out that MLs were the better choice after all (also because I mastered MPLs which gave me the skill needed to make the best out of MLs). You always improve, that still applies after thousands of matches. Because you got multiple mechs with XL I assume that you don't have C-Bill problems and still got some STD engines lying around. Just swap the XL on your Stalker for a STD for a while just for the change and you might find out that STDs might work better for you .

Quote

Ferro frees up just a couple of tons (enough to put 2 or 3 more missile ammo) and adds very good armor protection.

Wait a sec. While ferro got ton per ton 12% more armor than the standard armor "item", it does not mean that your armor rating improves because you also have de facto less armor "plates" on the mech itself (that's where to freed up weight comes from). All you get out of ferro is -14 slots and the weight reduction. Just read through some official statements on that matter (or the comments of the stat lovers that search through every single game file and parameter).

Edited by Ragnar Darkmane, 19 June 2013 - 01:28 PM.

[One Medic Army]

Skyfaller, on 19 June 2013 - 12:07 PM, said:

Slots. The stalker has the tonnage to equip the support kit items. Ferro frees up just a couple of tons (enough to put 2 or 3 more missile ammo) and adds very good armor protection. If you equip endo you'd have good tonnage freed up but nothing to put it into other than your leg armor.. and ferro is a much better choice for that kit. You will notice the heavy missile kit uses endo.

Both Endo and Ferro cost 14slots.
Endo frees up 4.25tons on a Stalker
Ferro frees up 1.8tons on a max armor Stalker, and provides no additional protection while doing so.

1 pt of Ferro armor absorbs 1 pt of damage and weighs .0275 tons
1 pt of Standard armor absorbs 1 pt of damage and weighs .03125 tons.
Your maximum armor value is the same for both.

Edited by One Medic Army, 19 June 2013 - 01:00 PM.

[Zordicron]

Many people say stalker. They work OK. Catapult is an obvious choice as 3 variants were designed for the role. it is only 65 tons though, but can be more mobile then heavy or assault boats, so it is preference.

Really though, the Awesome is the missile boat. 8R with 4 LRM15 and artemis. makes blob of doom, none of this 5 or 6 rounds fireing off, just one giant blob that looks like the sun falling from the sky. Enough tons to put a few ML on for protection. Does best with a wingman, brawlers eat you up.
A lesser chosen option is the 8V. 3 LRM 15 artemis, still a giant blob. with one less lrm, there is room for more engine and a few ore lasers. My 8V does 60 something kph before tweak, has 3 ML and a LL, and the LRM15's. Plays like a boat, can duke it out with a heavy or medium surprisingly well when it has to.

Currently, the hit detection issues can be SEVERE and can really hamper a LRM boat performance. Dmg will show at the end of a match, however it may not register onto the mech you hit. So a 600 dmg game might have only done 100 in reality as the mech you dropped the sun on didnt register 80% of the dmg. This has been my experience with my 8R. LRM60 does what, 66 dmg? If it all hits torso(s), which 90% of the time it does with artemis and fireing from optimal range at a solid target, 66 dmg should be devestating. Indeed, one or two salvos should core omst heavy mechs. 3 for assaults(I did this to a 9M last night, the third salvo was overkill). However, due to the detection issues, I have seen it also happen where 6 salvos drop on a stalker and it walks away with orange armor. Dropped one on a treb with orange internals once and it completely failed to do anything- total hit detection failure even though the target paper doll flashed the hit.

anyway, when this gets fixed eventually, LRM play might change some.

I would say, in the end, catapult is for a good LRM platform for solid mobility and some self defense, with less MEGA BOAT POWER. Stalkers work out pretty well, but the LRM's are split into smaller groups to fire, spreading out dmg delivery. However, a stalker is also inherently durable, so that is a consideration.
But if you want to do LURMPOCKOLYPES right, you need an Awesome. 8V if you want more mobility and a little brawl capacity, 8R if you just want LURMPOCKOLYPSE NOW and fire off a LRM60 alpha in one, glorious, flaming ball of doom. The single SPANK when that doom blob hits,(and actually registers) and you see your target's paper doll go from yellow armor to orange internals, well, its more satisfying to me then having the trail-O-missiles splatter your foe into submission. But thats all player preference.

[Gaan Cathal]

Trebuchets are probably the most all-round dangerous LRM boats to my mind. Effective LRMs aren't indirect fire, they're direct fire supporting the brawl and the Treb can keep up speed around the outskirts of the fight to do that. Most LRM Stalkers I see aren't much more effective than Catapults or Trebs with far smaller launcher loadouts because they spend too much time ambling towards the fight unable to do anything but play at artillery.

[Johnny Reb]

My favorite lrm boat, er...platform, is the Highlander 733.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...fe66404558a86e7

Only missing tag, but prefer 2 med laser for defense than 1.

Also, like the new Quickdraw 4H. Run 2 lrm 15+arty, 1 lrm 5+arty, 3 med, tag, bap w/ xl280 engine and 2jj. Think I now prefer it over my lrm Treb, which is also good.

Edited by Johnny Reb, 19 June 2013 - 08:01 PM.

[Bagua]

Lightfoot, on 17 June 2013 - 02:27 PM, said:

The ammo in the CT is very dangerous, put a BAP there. Try to keep ammo out of the torso unless you use CASE. Too many hits to the torso in matches and you get an ammo explosion.

Nah, its totally ok: 18 deaths on 46 games with 83 kills.

Edited by Bagua, 20 June 2013 - 12:59 AM.

[Skyfaller]

One Medic Army, on 19 June 2013 - 01:00 PM, said:

1 pt of Ferro armor absorbs 1 pt of damage and weighs .0275 tons
1 pt of Standard armor absorbs 1 pt of damage and weighs .03125 tons.
Your maximum armor value is the same for both.

Hmmm if that is the case then the devs have some serious re-working to do for the ferro. If its lighter you should be allowed to load MORE ..even over the max allowed amount to make it worth something.

[FERAL TIGER]

If your new to missileboats (or LRMs in particular), I'd go with the C1. Throw some artemis on there, a hula girl in the cockpit, a tag and some medium lasers. Eases you into the missile role with come ML's that you're already used too.

[One Medic Army]

Skyfaller, on 20 June 2013 - 05:46 PM, said:

Hmmm if that is the case then the devs have some serious re-working to do for the ferro. If its lighter you should be allowed to load MORE ..even over the max allowed amount to make it worth something.

It's the same as it was in TT, and in TT it was just crap.
You're not alone in hoping it gets reworked to not be terrible.

[Levi Porphyrogenitus]

I run a Stalker LRM carrier (2 ALRM15s and 5 ML, with lots of ammo), an Atlas LRM carrier (2 ALRM15s and 4 ML, with lots of ammo), and a Catapult LRM carrier (2 ALRM15s with 4 ML and lots of ammo and JJs). All of my missile boats include AMS, and my Stalker is the 2x AMS variant, which lets me handily win LRM duels. Plus, always take at least one secondary weapon for inside 180m. I can't tell you the number of kills I've gotten when my enemy has nothing but LRMs just by getting too close. I also can't tell you how many I've gotten because somebody got too close to my LRM boat and my secondary weapons kicked in. That 5ML Stalker is a pretty nasty surprise to people who think closing with it is the best option.

[Skyfaller]

Levi Porphyrogenitus, on 20 June 2013 - 08:57 PM, said:

I run a Stalker LRM carrier (2 ALRM15s and 5 ML, with lots of ammo), an Atlas LRM carrier (2 ALRM15s and 4 ML, with lots of ammo), and a Catapult LRM carrier (2 ALRM15s with 4 ML and lots of ammo and JJs). All of my missile boats include AMS, and my Stalker is the 2x AMS variant, which lets me handily win LRM duels. Plus, always take at least one secondary weapon for inside 180m. I can't tell you the number of kills I've gotten when my enemy has nothing but LRMs just by getting too close. I also can't tell you how many I've gotten because somebody got too close to my LRM boat and my secondary weapons kicked in. That 5ML Stalker is a pretty nasty surprise to people who think closing with it is the best option.

The thing with 5 ML's is the heat and short range.

Since the information on this thread hinted the Ferro armor was not really providing more protection I switched to Endo. The stalker 5s now loads the same 2xLRM20 with 1080 missiles, 2AMS and near max armor on all but legs, XL300 12 DHS and BAP and Artemis. The endo allowed me to fit in a third LL over the previous build of 2LLs.

Three LL's is better than 5 medium lasers.

Consider:

ML = 4 heat, 5 damage. 270m range
LL = 7 heat, 9 damage. 450m range.

5 ML = 25 damage, 20 heat. 270m range.
3 LL = 27 damage, 21 heat. 450m range.

The LL's will allow you to reach out and add further torso/CT area damage to the target the LRM's are hitting. Its quite useful to have three LL'***** the target twice before the LRM swarm hits (~600m range).