21 replies to this topic

[Aris Sung]

Hello,

I've searched for this but cannot find it, so forgive me if this has been discussed.

In Battletech, if I remember correctly, Artemis only worked if it was placed in a slot in the same location as the weapon. I am interested to put Artemis on the Cataphract 4x, but the head only has the slot for the weapon. Can anyone tell me if Arty in another location will aid the head LRM? Thank you very much.

[Sephlock]

No. You can't even fit an LRM5 in there if you have Artemis installed.

[Thorqemada]

Artemis comes with the weapon after you have upgradded the Mech.
Each SRM/LRM launcher will weight +1 Ton and takes up +1 Slot compared to non Artemis launchers.
SSRM will not change weight and slot requirements.

Edited by Thorqemada, 13 June 2013 - 08:29 PM.

[Sephlock]

Also, all the missiles in an LRM5 will be shot down by ams, if your target (or any enemy near it) has it. Hell, I've had entire LRM10 volleys shot down by a single Stalker's AMS (although it may have been the model with two- it didn't LOOK that way based on the AMS tracers, but I assume that was the case.

[Hans Von Lohman]

Artemis is automatically part of the missile launchers in this game when you upgrade your mech to have it.

You will see an LRM-5 jump up in weight by a ton, and take 2 critical slots instead of the normal 1 slot it usually takes, which means you cannot fit any missile launcher in the head of your Cataphract 4x except for a streak SRM-2, which wouldn't have an Artemis built into it.

Edited by Hans Von Lohman, 13 June 2013 - 08:33 PM.

[Nauht]

Sephlock, on 13 June 2013 - 08:29 PM, said:

Also, all the missiles in an LRM5 will be shot down by ams, if your target (or any enemy near it) has it. Hell, I've had entire LRM10 volleys shot down by a single Stalker's AMS (although it may have been the model with two- it didn't LOOK that way based on the AMS tracers, but I assume that was the case.

Pretty sure thats not how AMS works. IIRC if it's a volley of 1 LRM20 a single AMS will shoot down about 5 missiles but won't get them all. Last I read (when it was first introduced the kill rate was about 20% per salvo).
Unless you're clumped together with 3-4 AMS mechs (and even then some missiles will still get through) you're still going to get hit with the majority of a salvo.

AMS does not negate all missiles - if it did the forums would have exploded by now.

[Dude42]

Nauht, on 13 June 2013 - 08:52 PM, said:

Pretty sure thats not how AMS works. IIRC if it's a volley of 1 LRM20 a single AMS will shoot down about 5 missiles but won't get them all. Last I read (when it was first introduced the kill rate was about 20% per salvo).
Unless you're clumped together with 3-4 AMS mechs (and even then some missiles will still get through) you're still going to get hit with the majority of a salvo.

AMS does not negate all missiles - if it did the forums would have exploded by now.

Reread what the guy said. It negates all missiles from a single LRM 5, and possibly a dual AMS eliminates all the missiles form a single LRM10. Nobody even mentioned an LRM20, however we can assume 4 AMS mechs can shoot the entire volley down.

[Nauht]

Dude42, on 13 June 2013 - 08:55 PM, said:

Reread what the guy said. It negates all missiles from a single LRM 5, and possibly a dual AMS eliminates all the missiles form a single LRM10. Nobody even mentioned an LRM20, however we can assume 4 AMS mechs can shoot the entire volley down.

No read what I said - it negates 20% of a salvo, be it LRM5, 10 or 20. So a single AMS will shoot down only 1 missile of an LRM5 salvo. Two AMS will shoot down a combined 2 of that five. This is most evident when fighting a light who has streaks and you have AMS. The AMS will only shoot down a couple of those missiles but most will still hit you.

AMS does not fully negate a salvo unless you've got a clump of mechs all together - and even then people fire off so many salvos in combination that the majority of missiles will get through. It mitigates the damage received not kill it all together. It isn't a missile shield.

[Sephlock]

All I can say is that I just had a game where I literally sat there firing over and over and not getting a single hitmarker as I watched the AMS tracers fire up from a single mech (my target), and take out all my missiles. (This was the game with the LRM10 where I was firing at a Stalker). I've had similar experiences with a lone LRM 5 (on a light). Maybe it was a video thing and I just didn't see the other ams tracers, but it really didn't seem that way.

[Dude42]

Nauht, on 13 June 2013 - 09:09 PM, said:

No read what I said - it negates 20% of a salvo, be it LRM5, 10 or 20. So a single AMS will shoot down only 1 missile of an LRM5 salvo. Two AMS will shoot down a combined 2 of that five. This is most evident when fighting a light who has streaks and you have AMS. The AMS will only shoot down a couple of those missiles but most will still hit you.

AMS does not fully negate a salvo unless you've got a clump of mechs all together - and even then people fire off so many salvos in combination that the majority of missiles will get through. It mitigates the damage received not kill it all together. It isn't a missile shield.

LOL. Then you are just plain wrong.

Try it.

We're talking about LRMs not streaks, less streaks get shot down because they are fired from so close generally, that the AMS doesn't have as much time to shoot. But for real. Try it, load up an LRM 5, shoot at an enemy with AMS, observe how many shots get through.

Edited by Dude42, 13 June 2013 - 09:16 PM.

[One Medic Army]

Nauht, on 13 June 2013 - 09:09 PM, said:

No read what I said - it negates 20% of a salvo, be it LRM5, 10 or 20. So a single AMS will shoot down only 1 missile of an LRM5 salvo. Two AMS will shoot down a combined 2 of that five. This is most evident when fighting a light who has streaks and you have AMS. The AMS will only shoot down a couple of those missiles but most will still hit you.

AMS does not fully negate a salvo unless you've got a clump of mechs all together - and even then people fire off so many salvos in combination that the majority of missiles will get through. It mitigates the damage received not kill it all together. It isn't a missile shield.

Not how AMS works in MWO.
AMS deals 3.5 DPS to missiles and has a 200m range.
LRMs have 1 hit point each (yeah, you can pop them with large lasers/LBX too) and travel at 120m/s.
AMS thus shoots a volley for 1.67seconds, and shoots down 5.83 missiles per volley.

In TT AMS didn't shoot down a set number of missiles, it just gave a -4 penalty to the cluster hits roll.

(Btw SSRM and SRM have 2hp each, and have different travel speeds)

Edited by One Medic Army, 13 June 2013 - 09:18 PM.

[Sephlock]

So you've found a use for LBX after all! AA duty!

[Nauht]

One Medic Army, on 13 June 2013 - 09:18 PM, said:

Not how AMS works in MWO.
AMS deals 3.5 DPS to missiles and has a 200m range.
LRMs have 1 hit point each (yeah, you can pop them with large lasers/LBX too) and travel at 120m/s.
AMS thus shoots a volley for 1.67seconds, and shoots down 5.83 missiles per volley.

In TT AMS didn't shoot down a set number of missiles, it just gave a -4 penalty to the cluster hits roll.

(Btw SSRM and SRM have 2hp each, and have different travel speeds)

Ah then I stand corrected. So it destroys about 5 missiles per volley once it comes within the 200m range.
Yes that would kill off a single LRM5 and explain the streaks as SRMs travel much faster and have double the hps.

So it would negate one LRM5 launcher - hardly a threat at all and if one light has an LRM5 he. Its almost practically useless for 5.5 damage that gets distributed all over the mech.

So going by those numbers AMS is actually WORSE than the flat out % kill per volley. With LRM45's volleys being the norm I would rather 20% of those not reaching me rather than a flat 5.83.

[Sephlock]

Oh and machineguns too. And depending on how they work, maybe flamers (I you used them the way Dhalsim uses his Yoga Blast.

[Hans Von Lohman]

Nauht, on 13 June 2013 - 09:09 PM, said:

No read what I said - it negates 20% of a salvo, be it LRM5, 10 or 20. So a single AMS will shoot down only 1 missile of an LRM5 salvo. Two AMS will shoot down a combined 2 of that five. This is most evident when fighting a light who has streaks and you have AMS. The AMS will only shoot down a couple of those missiles but most will still hit you.

AMS does not fully negate a salvo unless you've got a clump of mechs all together - and even then people fire off so many salvos in combination that the majority of missiles will get through. It mitigates the damage received not kill it all together. It isn't a missile shield.

Nope, I had an LRM-5 on a mech (it was leftover tonnage, so why not), and it was shot down completely by a single AMS system. I watched them all disappear before ever getting to the bad guy.

I stopped firing my LRM-5 that game because it was a waste of time.

[One Medic Army]

Nauht, on 13 June 2013 - 09:49 PM, said:

Ah then I stand corrected. So it destroys about 5 missiles per volley once it comes within the 200m range.
Yes that would kill off a single LRM5 and explain the streaks as SRMs travel much faster and have double the hps.

So it would negate one LRM5 launcher - hardly a threat at all and if one light has an LRM5 he. Its almost practically useless for 5.5 damage that gets distributed all over the mech.

So going by those numbers AMS is actually WORSE than the flat out % kill per volley. With LRM45's volleys being the norm I would rather 20% of those not reaching me rather than a flat 5.83.

Yup, this is why I suggested AMS firing a spread like an LBX at the approaching volley, and knocking missiles out based more on missile density rather than an absolute amount per volley.
Of course, balancing that would be a pain, and the current system seems baseline functional, though it does pretty much negate anyone planning to fire small volleys, especially without artemis/TAG.

[Nauht]

Hans Von Lohman, on 13 June 2013 - 09:50 PM, said:

Nope, I had an LRM-5 on a mech (it was leftover tonnage, so why not), and it was shot down completely by a single AMS system. I watched them all disappear before ever getting to the bad guy.

I stopped firing my LRM-5 that game because it was a waste of time.

Yep, just replied to that in my reply above yours.

[Sephlock]

Just think of it as running down their ammo supply.

[Nauht]

That would explain it then Seph - if that stalker had dual AMS it would have blown up all your missiles. I think i saw a stalker variant with dual AMS. I know an Atlas does. But I dont play assaults so wouldnt know which variants.

[Gaan Cathal]

Just for a point of information, conventional weapons in MW:O cannot shoot down missiles.