659 replies to this topic

[Deathlike]

Spectre117, on 17 June 2013 - 09:51 AM, said:

deleted

You know.. there are more things that are broken that are unrelated to 3PV, like, the current state of AlphaWarrior Online and AssaultWarrior Online.

Adding 3PV will result in the same thing... there will be more complaints about the current imbalance.

Edited by miSs, 17 June 2013 - 10:54 AM.
quote clean up

[Rebas Kradd]

I love the implicit assumption that a bunch of sim purists who played some FASA board game back in the 80s are plentiful enough to keep a video game funded. MechWarrior is not a big title. Sim players are not a big group. Any convalescence of these two is not likely to be a big group. Has anyone ever considered that maybe they need more people simply to stay operational?

Edited by Rebas Kradd, 17 June 2013 - 09:57 AM.

[Kraven Kor]

hammerreborn, on 17 June 2013 - 09:53 AM, said:

Hardcore means nothing. Just imagine it says 1st/3rd and 1st person only as the modes instead. All mercs vs mercs matches must be played in 1st person only. Hardcore says nothing about the skill level of the players, it's just the game you're playing now.

If you queue for Hardcore assault you play the current assault mode that you've enjoyed the last 8-10 months.

Normal assault is current assault, but some people can choose to play 3rd person view if they choose.


Then there will be the planet capturing merc v merc missions. Those must be played in Hardcore mode and only concerns those who are doing merc play. All lone wolves/house people don't have to worry about this at all. This is "raiding" for lack of a better term.

Not how I am reading the following; admittedly I could be wrong:

Quote

Viper69 : If we are going to be able to choose to play against people using 3PV or not to, how are you going to address the then fractured and smaller groups that then have to wait in queue for a match that meets their perimeters?
A: There will be two modes Normal and Hardcore (FPV) only. We anticipate most players will play the first mode leaving the hardcore mode for the those wanting a challenge. 3PV will be going onto test servers in the next 60 days and we’ll see how it goes from there.

Ghost Badger: How does PGI plan to reconcile Community Warfare matches with 3PV and 1PV? How will they reconcile matches between teams with different preferences? Or do they plan to split the CW mechanic by viewpoint?
A: The plan is to have scheduled matches will be FPV only, since these will be performed between Merc. Units. Regular matches will follow the above rules (Normal/Hardcore).

Edited by Kraven Kor, 17 June 2013 - 10:00 AM.

[hammerreborn]

Kraven Kor, on 17 June 2013 - 09:59 AM, said:

Not how I am reading the following; admittedly I could be wrong:

[b][/font]

You're going to have to give me more information that that. All of that says exactly what I'm saying to you.

There will be two modes:

Hardcore (1st person only): This is the game you are playing right now. No difference.
Normal (1st/3rd person): This is the game you are playing right now, but with third person.

Then there is CW:

Normal matches (i.e. non merc vs merc) will follow the hardcore/normal arrangement. For example, the fronts Bryan mentioned in one of those interview video things. I'm part of Davion, you're part of FWL. I queue for hardcore mode, you queue for hardcore mode. We fight each other in a random pug match. Davion wins. Davion gains x% of the "front" for the CW aspect.

Then there is the merc v merc. I'm part of the robinson rangers brigade, you're part of silver hawks irregulars. We want your planet. We schedule a hardcore (as its the only option) to take your planet. We fight for your planet. I win, we take your planet, you win, you keep it. Or however it ends up working.

Edited by hammerreborn, 17 June 2013 - 10:05 AM.

[Deathlike]

Spectre117, on 17 June 2013 - 09:58 AM, said:

deleted

I'm waffling about 3PV, because PGI is known to screw things up.

The reality is that if this game gets worse over time, the 3PV/1PV queues could (in PGI's case, WOULD) potentially merge as one, which removes the original premise of the separate queues.

Edited by miSs, 17 June 2013 - 10:55 AM.
quote clean up

[Felicitatem Parco]

As I read it - there will be 2 "game modes" and they are currently referring to them as Normal and hardcore, where the Hardcore game mode is restricted to 1st person only.

The faction/House gameplay in Community Warfare will have 2 groups of players (many "normal" players and some "hardcore" players). The Hardcore House players will fight in 1pv-only matches, and the "Normal" house players will be fighting either only 3pv or a mix of 3pv and 1pv players ( I don't know if "normal mode' allows for 1pv or not).

The Mercenary gameplay will be all 1pv, so Hardcore-only for the Merc crowd.

Edited by Prosperity Park, 17 June 2013 - 10:07 AM.

[Kraven Kor]

hammerreborn, on 17 June 2013 - 10:02 AM, said:

You're going to have to give me more information that that. All of that says exactly what I'm saying to you.

There will be two modes:

Hardcore (1st person only): This is the game you are playing right now. No difference.
Normal (1st/3rd person): This is the game you are playing right now, but with third person.

Then there is CW:

Normal matches (i.e. non merc vs merc) will follow the hardcore/normal arrangement. For example, the fronts Bryan mentioned in one of those interview video things. I'm part of Davion, you're part of FWL. I queue for hardcore mode, you queue for hardcore mode. We fight each other in a random pug match. Davion wins. Davion gains x% of the "front" for the CW aspect.

Then there is the merc v merc. I'm part of the robinson rangers brigade, you're part of silver hawks irregulars. We want your planet. We schedule a hardcore (as its the only option) to take your planet. We fight for your planet. I win, we take your planet, you win, you keep it. Or however it ends up working.

(Note: Read this in a conversational tone; I'm really not raging, just commenting, and predicting that my and many others' fears regarding 3PV have come true.)

So are you skipping over the "most people will play in the 3PV queue" leaving the FPV queue a ghost-town (as they were in MW:4...)

Are you skipping the line in the 2nd question that FPV-only CW matches will have to be scheduled? I won't be able to just "jump on and drop into a CW match" unless I am OK with playing with / against 3PV in the general queue.

Pretty much exactly what many of the anti-3PV folks have been predicting?

Don't hand me a **** sandwich and tell me its a steak burger

[Felicitatem Parco]

I would greatly appreciate it if people would stop saying that PGI wants this game to become 3PV-only, as that is a completely ridiculous statement, and it's only thrown out there because some people want to say the "strongest" things possible in order to make themselves sound more serious/intense.

Seriously, do you think they are designing custom cockpits for every single Mech and relegating the player-driven portion of the main campaign to 1PV-only just so they can be thrown away and convert the entire game to 3PV-only? Do you really think that is their goal, or are you merely saying that in order to express your displeasure with the game's Development Cycle? Yeah... not a single person here actually thinks they are gonna merge the queues, you're just saying that because you want to say something insulting.

Please, just stop saying that; it detracts from the quality of postings when such statements are made.

[hammerreborn]

Kraven Kor, on 17 June 2013 - 10:11 AM, said:

(Note: Read this in a conversational tone; I'm really not raging, just commenting, and predicting that my and many others' fears regarding 3PV have come true.)

So are you skipping over the "most people will play in the 3PV queue" leaving the FPV queue a ghost-town (as they were in MW:4...)

Are you skipping the line in the 2nd question that FPV-only CW matches will have to be scheduled? I won't be able to just "jump on and drop into a CW match" unless I am OK with playing with / against 3PV in the general queue.

Pretty much exactly what many of the anti-3PV folks have been predicting?

Don't hand me a **** sandwich and tell me its a steak burger

Once again, I have no clue where you are getting your information. But I suggest trying to reread what I and PP have said.

Quote

A: The plan is to have scheduled matches will be FPV only, since these will be performed between Merc. Units. Regular matches will follow the above rules (Normal/Hardcore).

There, I even formatted the parts differently.

CW has two types of matches, merc units that are scheduled, and regular matches. The first is FPV only, the latter is whatever you damn well choose.

Bryan says that many people will play in Normal mode cause who gives a damn? I'll probably play in it cause I seriously don't give a rats *** if someone is playing in 3rd or first. If I play with friends it'll probably be hardcore only because I know one guy that doesn't like 3rd. Big deal!

This isn't the damn end of the world. READ what I and PP have written.

Prosperity Park, on 17 June 2013 - 10:15 AM, said:

I would greatly appreciate it if people would stop saying that PGI wants this game to become 3PV-only, as that is a completely ridiculous statement, and it's only thrown out there because some people want to say the "strongest" things possible in order to make themselves sound more serious/intense.

Seriously, do you think they are designing custom cockpits for every single Mech and relegating the player-driven portion of the main campaign to 1PV-only just so they can be thrown away and convert the entire game to 3PV-only? Do you really think that is their goal, or are you merely saying that in order to express your displeasure with the game's Development Cycle? Yeah... not a single person here actually thinks they are gonna merge the queues, you're just saying that because you want to say something insulting.

Please, just stop saying that; it detracts from the quality of postings when such statements are made.

PP, this is how I feel everytime I post in these threads, and I think you are now feeling it too.

Edited by hammerreborn, 17 June 2013 - 10:19 AM.

[WarHippy]

Spectre117, on 17 June 2013 - 09:51 AM, said:

deleted

First, where is your evidence of huge numbers that want 3pv, and please don't proclaim Russians because that is silly? Never have I seen Russians or any other group refuse to play a game because it didn't have 3pv.

Second, if there was a feature I wanted in a game, or I wanted to be heard in regards to a potential change to a game I am playing I would participate in the forums. If I didn't care one way or another I would not vote, or ask about it. Yet I am supposed to believe silence is an indicator of desire?

Third, was 3pv intended from the start? I don't know because PGI tends to be rather ambiguous with information on most things leaving a lot of room for interpretation.

Fourth, PGI has flip flopped on a lot of things be they good or bad so I can't agree with you on you assertion that they have never gone back on anything.

Fifth, splitting the player base is never a good thing period. League of Legends has a huge player base and they have stated numerous times that they fear splitting the player base too much every time they make a new game mode. We have short queues now, but what happens if people start leaving because the queues become to long? Sure we might gain some players adding a 3pv mode, but you are just treading water if you end up losing players because the community ends up fractured.

Edited by WarHippy, 17 June 2013 - 10:27 AM.

[Screech]

Well it does explain the stunning lack of progress and the constant pushing back of deadlines, they are spending the majority of their time implementing 3PV and leaving the rest to rot.

I only wish they had spent their resources to making a finished game instead of chasing the 2 birds in the bush.

On the plus side, I am looking forward to say "Boy this 3PV is pretty cool!!" at the start of every "hardcore" match just to freak folks out.

[BlackBeltJones]

Prosperity Park, on 17 June 2013 - 10:15 AM, said:

I would greatly appreciate it if people would stop saying that PGI wants this game to become 3PV-only, as that is a completely ridiculous statement, and it's only thrown out there because some people want to say the "strongest" things possible in order to make themselves sound more serious/intense.

Seriously, do you think they are designing custom cockpits for every single Mech and relegating the player-driven portion of the main campaign to 1PV-only just so they can be thrown away and convert the entire game to 3PV-only? Do you really think that is their goal, or are you merely saying that in order to express your displeasure with the game's Development Cycle? Yeah... not a single person here actually thinks they are gonna merge the queues, you're just saying that because you want to say something insulting.

Please, just stop saying that; it detracts from the quality of postings when such statements are made.

There is a lack of Developers input regarding this issues and the implementation. Certainly we all appreciate you being the sole voice and sole advocate of this idea, and I can relate to how challenging your current position must be but please understand you likely have details we do not and others may worry that their First Person experience may be in some jeopardy. I can relate to the concern, as a typical Lone Wolf PUG I am curious if i will be able to maximize the Hardcore mode - I don't have a ton of time but I refuse to play 3PV.

Added** I say sole advocate not to imply you are the only supporter of the idea but the only PGI rep (sort of) voicing a position. Also you may have information like population trends, all those user feedback emails, Devs vision etc... which none of are aware of. This may create a situation where your knowledge offers you comfort that the current dev silence does not afford us, the vocal minority.

Edited by BlackBeltJones, 17 June 2013 - 10:45 AM.

[hammerreborn]

BlackBeltJones, on 17 June 2013 - 10:37 AM, said:

There is a lack of Developers input regarding this issues and the implementation. Certainly we all appreciate you being the sole voice and sole advocate of this idea, and I can relate to how challenging your current position must be but please understand you likely have details we do not and others may worry that their First Person experience may be in some jeopardy. I can relate to the concern, as a typical Lone Wolf PUG I am curious if i will be able to maximize the Hardcore mode - I don't have a ton of time but I refuse to play 3PV.

Added** I say sole advocate not to imply you are the only supporter of the idea but the only PGI rep (sort of) voicing a position. Also you may have information like population trends, all those user feedback emails, Devs vision etc... which none of are aware of. This may create a situation where your knowledge offers you comfort that the current dev silence does not afford us, the vocal minority.

What is so hard to understand that anything you can do in nomal mode you can do in hardcore mode, PLUS MORE? Honestly. I really want to understand where you are coming from.

HARDCORE MODE IS WHAT YOU'VE BEEN PLAYING FOR THE PAST 8-10 MONTHS. NO DIFFERENCE

Edited by hammerreborn, 17 June 2013 - 10:48 AM.

[WarHippy]

hammerreborn, on 17 June 2013 - 10:47 AM, said:

What is so hard to understand that anything you can do in nomal mode you can do in hardcore mode, PLUS MORE? Honestly. I really want to understand where you are coming from.

HARDCORE MODE IS WHAT YOU'VE BEEN PLAYING FOR THE PAST 8-10 MONTHS. NO DIFFERENCE

Now you have me confused. What is the PLUS MORE you can do in normal mode when merc vs merc is hardcore only? Are you referring to the fact you can play in 3pv in normal mode is the more you are talking about?

I still think the naming convention for these modes is pretty bad.

Edited by WarHippy, 17 June 2013 - 10:54 AM.

[hammerreborn]

Plus more is modifying hardcore mode, not normal. Sorry if it wasn't clear.

Ya the naming convention isn't exactly the greatest, but it still doesn't change the fact that just because its called hardcore mode doesn't mean anything other than its 1st person only.

It could be called gum drops and lolipop modes and it doesn't change the fact that if you only want to play 1st person you choose lolipop mode, if you want to play 3rd person gum drop, or don't care choose either.

Edited by hammerreborn, 17 June 2013 - 10:59 AM.

[Kraven Kor]

hammerreborn, on 17 June 2013 - 10:18 AM, said:

Once again, I have no clue where you are getting your information. But I suggest trying to reread what I and PP have said.



There, I even formatted the parts differently.

CW has two types of matches, merc units that are scheduled, and regular matches. The first is FPV only, the latter is whatever you damn well choose.

Bryan says that many people will play in Normal mode cause who gives a damn? I'll probably play in it cause I seriously don't give a rats *** if someone is playing in 3rd or first. If I play with friends it'll probably be hardcore only because I know one guy that doesn't like 3rd. Big deal!

This isn't the damn end of the world. READ what I and PP have written.

Can you at least see how their answer could have been, and was, misconstrued?

And did you read my request to read my posts conversationally, so as to avoid arguments?

[hammerreborn]

Kraven Kor, on 17 June 2013 - 10:56 AM, said:

Can you at least see how their answer could have been, and was, misconstrued?

And did you read my request to read my posts conversationally, so as to avoid arguments?

No? Too many people are focusing on the name, which means nothing. Just because it's called hardcore doesn't mean you have to be serious buisness to play. It's just the mode you play right now.

[WarHippy]

hammerreborn, on 17 June 2013 - 10:56 AM, said:

Plus more is modifying hardcore mode, not normal. Sorry if it wasn't clear.

Ya the naming convention isn't exactly the greatest, but it still doesn't change the fact that just because its called hardcore mode mean anything.

It could be called gum drops and lolipop modes and it doesn't change the fact that if you only want to play 1st person you choose lolipop mode, if you want to play 3rd person gum drop, or don't care choose either.

Thanks for clearing that up. It just didn't make sense in my mind the way you said it.

I just want it to be called something other than hardcore or some other name that may scare people from that mode. Hardcore modes in games are aimed at very competitive groups with a strong emphasis on difficulty. Being 1st person only doesn't fit the bill of what a hardcore mode would traditionally be, and I would hate to see people artificially pushed into the other mode because of poor naming.

[hammerreborn]

WarHippy, on 17 June 2013 - 11:05 AM, said:

Thanks for clearing that up. It just didn't make sense in my mind the way you said it.

I just want it to be called something other than hardcore or some other name that may scare people from that mode. Hardcore modes in games are aimed at very competitive groups with a strong emphasis on difficulty. Being 1st person only doesn't fit the bill of what a hardcore mode would traditionally be, and I would hate to see people artificially pushed into the other mode because of poor naming.

I can't argue with that. I fully agree. Like I said, "hardcore" modes these days are HUDless OHKO modes.

[BlackBeltJones]

hammerreborn, on 17 June 2013 - 10:47 AM, said:

What is so hard to understand that anything you can do in nomal mode you can do in hardcore mode, PLUS MORE? Honestly. I really want to understand where you are coming from.

HARDCORE MODE IS WHAT YOU'VE BEEN PLAYING FOR THE PAST 8-10 MONTHS. NO DIFFERENCE

Given the lack of full detail on why gameplay of the last year is now not 'normal' and given that a community split is occurring there are questions regrading the implementation that are not answered. I was mostly responding to the notion that 'all will be fine' when there are details missing from the whole story. As for my specific curiosity, I wondered if as a LW PUG I would be disadvantaged in queuing for game in Hardcore mode or (give the 'Hardcore' nature) if there is a place for the LW PUG in hardcore mode. And before an attack is leveled at me I would suggest one reviews the history of PGI communication and then fault me for wanting more explicit details.