42 replies to this topic

[arkani]

on 3rd person view, PGIIGP choose to ignore its players.
I will respond in kind, i let my money talk, PGIIGP, will not be getting any money from me. I will not suport MWO.

Edited by arkani, 17 June 2013 - 12:22 AM.

[von Pilsner]

I imagine they will make it forced mixed mode eventually and then drop the separate hardcore mode completely.

[Jacmac]

Why all of the worry over 3rd person? When it comes out only 10% of the player base is going to use it, and 90% instantly attain the status of "hard core" sim-head. PGI expects 3rd person to increase the casual player base by many time the current player base (or they are deluding themselves into thinking that 3rd person will convert existing players). I don't care if 3rd person exists as long as the 3rd person matches are separated from 1st person matches. Why would anyone care? If PGI thinks it will grow the game by putting in a cheeze mode, good luck to them.

[GingerBang]

Jacmac, on 17 June 2013 - 05:07 PM, said:

Why all of the worry over 3rd person? When it comes out only 10% of the player base is going to use it, and 90% instantly attain the status of "hard core" sim-head. PGI expects 3rd person to increase the casual player base by many time the current player base (or they are deluding themselves into thinking that 3rd person will convert existing players). I don't care if 3rd person exists as long as the 3rd person matches are separated from 1st person matches. Why would anyone care? If PGI thinks it will grow the game by putting in a cheeze mode, good luck to them.

I care about the fact they are pretty much saying "If you don't want to play with people using cheap gimmicks, kindly leave the room and go play in this special area."

[Cliffton Spoon]

If the main issue players have with 3rd person view is that you can 'cheat' by looking around with your camera (over ridges, behind your mech etc.), the 3rd person view should be implemented to render only what your mech sees.
So only objects that are in the viewing cone of your mech would be shown and objects that are not blocked by terrain. Obviously terrain would be rendered even behind your mech or the view would be extremely wierd, and probably radar marks would be shown. This 'flag' is already calculated in game for the targeting so it should not be that difficult to take it a little further.
This should satisfy the hardcore simulation group, to which I personally belong, and also provide the 3rd person view to new players. People using 3rd person view would not have unfair advantage and if they want to ruin their gameplay, they can just go ahead and ruin it for themselves.

[Unrelenting Farce]

3PV would ruin this game as its played currently. I don't see how people can miss that:

1) situational awareness becomes more of a given, rather than a skill.

2) situational awareness extends over ridges, around corners, meaning that players no longer have to expose themselves to check if something's there, blunders can be prevented with a twist of the camera, etc.

3) this game is NOT a cover shooter, and cannot be.

4) the advantages of 3pv are inherent and unfair, and thus, to make fights more even, splitting the playerbase is a necessity, as per normal vs hardcore modes. to take this one step further, the devs will have to split their attention, and so...

SOMEONE IS GOING TO GET SHAFTED.

Edited by Unrelenting Farce, 18 June 2013 - 07:44 AM.

[Unrelenting Farce]

Cliffton Spoon, on 18 June 2013 - 12:51 AM, said:

If the main issue players have with 3rd person view is that you can 'cheat' by looking around with your camera (over ridges, behind your mech etc.), the 3rd person view should be implemented to render only what your mech sees.
So only objects that are in the viewing cone of your mech would be shown and objects that are not blocked by terrain. Obviously terrain would be rendered even behind your mech or the view would be extremely wierd, and probably radar marks would be shown. This 'flag' is already calculated in game for the targeting so it should not be that difficult to take it a little further.
This should satisfy the hardcore simulation group, to which I personally belong, and also provide the 3rd person view to new players. People using 3rd person view would not have unfair advantage and if they want to ruin their gameplay, they can just go ahead and ruin it for themselves.

That would look very strange and disorienting and be likely more taxing on computers than a free-to-play model should dare.

[oldradagast]

Lame...

I'll stick to 1st person view, thank you very much. I'm supposed to be in the mech, and if I get shot up because I didn't notice that light off to one side behind me, I get what I deserve. It can be frustrating, but that is the only way to improve one's skills... not just slapping on a seismic module and 3rd person viewpoint and then claim "sk!lls!"

[hammerreborn]

Might as well get some more milage out of this....

hammerreborn, on 17 June 2013 - 01:53 PM, said:

I will do my best!



You as a player will choose one or two of these options (you can be a merc player and part of Davion or a lone wolf, technically). I'm separating merc group as EXCLUSIVELY for the Merc vs Merc part of CW.

How each "group" will operate.






Picture courtesy of my wonderful and lovely wife who is way better at making stick figure dudes than I am.

I forgot: Merc groups schedule matches against other merc groups for "planetary control"

How CW will work in terms of the "modes"

STOP BEING SO DAMN HUNG UP ON THE NAME OF THE MODE. IT MEANS NOTHING

[Hotthedd]

AlexEss, on 15 June 2013 - 05:43 AM, said:

Adridos... So you rather risk having the game crawling around the 20-50k player mark just so it can maintain some abstract notion of "purity" that go wildly against everything the current market is saying. Yes i know they said from the start that it would be 1PV only... But that was because the only ones really talking about the game was that little diamond core, so it seemed like that was what EVERYBODY wanted. It turns out that in fact the diamond core was in the minority,

1PV only is very nice and i fully agree that no system should go in just for the heck of it. But that knife cut both ways, no system should be kept out just for the heck of it either. If putting in 3PV increase the chance of there being a game to play in 5 years time. I am all for it. I have had to "bury" enough MMO´s by now that i rather see devs err on the side of caution.

As for the hardcore note... Yesh... Most active people on this forum would fall in to that category... We are passionate and care about the game and the lore... But sometimes i think people get a bit to wrapped up in "the vision" contra "the reality" and i am personally glad that the devs have not ended up there yet.

I question the validity of your assertion that 1PV-only players are the "minority".

Could you please give some data to back that assertion?

[ninjitsu]

Seismic sensor pretty much already does everything that we're worried 3rd person view will do. I'm not pleased that they are adding 3rd person mostly because they lied about it. I don't see people playing any better using 3rd person view, I'm still gonna stomp on teh nubz. I think that it will feel great to pwn the 3rd person people in the face. Anybody agree?

How about, instead of complaining, we nut up and make those 3rd person monkeys sorry they stepped foot in to our mechwarriorz.

[Seddrik]

PGI, I understand you need income to support your efforts and the game. But please do not cheese the game and make it so dumbed down. Stick to your guns and make this a really awesome mech game. Work on things that actually EXPAND the interest in the game, rather than dividing the player base, angering the player base, alienating the player base.

I've played LOTS of games through the years, many of them $30 or less, and often free to play. Most of them I spent little to no money on at all. I've already spent more on this game BECAUSE IT IS DIFFERENT than I have on many, many, many games I have played. Now... its becoming like many, many, many others. Several times now you have done things in patches that made me think, why would I want to continue playing/investing in this game? Now you are proposing something you said you would not do. It will be just "tested" and possible half and half optional. Psh... like thats going to hold.

Restricting 8 mans to only vs 8 mans which has almost but killed 8 mans.

Elo, which punishes getting good at the game.

Seismic wall hack which has robbed the game of sneaking, surprise, flanking, tunnel runs, etc.

Third person view... won't make this game better. Just "easier".


This kind of thing is just getting annoying. There will be a breaking point where the greatness of the game is overshadowed by the cheese, the dumbed down, the easy mode garbage you are putting out... and people will leave. I have seen it in another game I played where the developers forgot their player base, appealed to an easier crowd and lost over one millions customers. You are slowly killing the game's greatness. Please get a handle on this.

Edited by Seddrik, 18 June 2013 - 09:47 AM.

[hammerreborn]

Seddrik, on 18 June 2013 - 09:42 AM, said:

Elo, which punishes getting good at the game.

Really? REALLY?

God damnit you people will cry about everything.

[Lord Rip]

ninjitsu, on 18 June 2013 - 09:06 AM, said:

Seismic sensor pretty much already does everything that we're worried 3rd person view will do. I'm not pleased that they are adding 3rd person mostly because they lied about it. I don't see people playing any better using 3rd person view, I'm still gonna stomp on teh nubz. I think that it will feel great to pwn the 3rd person people in the face. Anybody agree?

How about, instead of complaining, we nut up and make those 3rd person monkeys sorry they stepped foot in to our mechwarriorz.

You are absolutely right, but you forget a couple little details.

First Seismic is about to get the nerf hammer.
Second it cost a module slot a crap load of GXP AND a crapload of C-Bills. What is the cost of 3PV?
Third since the obvious anser to the above question is nothing, how many people would mount Seismic if it were free and didn't take a slot and would NEVER get nerfed?

Hopefully you answered everyone and then you can hopefully see why this means 1PV is all but dead, and for me thus the fun.

I picked up the Seismic just to see what the fuss was about and now only run it on my Raven as a counter to all the douchbags that use it to try and counter my flanking moves, if I didn't I would just get PPC sniped two minutes into every match.

[Adrienne Vorton]

Adridos, on 15 June 2013 - 01:57 AM, said:

It's quite funny that Hawken... a game that can only be called anything more than another generic shooter #999 with robot skins with both eyes closed and blindfolded, is first person only.

do you need to say more? i guess not

[krash27]

AlexEss, on 15 June 2013 - 01:27 AM, said:

As i said in another thread, they have to do 3pv, that is what the average player expects from a vehicle based game and it have been a staple of MW games for a very long time. If you do not include it all you will be left with is a small diamond core that will inbreed and go native, scaring away new players and in the end being unable to sustain the game. I have seen it happen before and it will happen again.

Honestly, if they do it well and it does not give any direct advantage... what does it matter what view mode people use.

AlexEss, on 15 June 2013 - 05:43 AM, said:

Adridos... So you rather risk having the game crawling around the 20-50k player mark just so it can maintain some abstract notion of "purity" that go wildly against everything the current market is saying. Yes i know they said from the start that it would be 1PV only... But that was because the only ones really talking about the game was that little diamond core, so it seemed like that was what EVERYBODY wanted. It turns out that in fact the diamond core was in the minority,

1PV only is very nice and i fully agree that no system should go in just for the heck of it. But that knife cut both ways, no system should be kept out just for the heck of it either. If putting in 3PV increase the chance of there being a game to play in 5 years time. I am all for it. I have had to "bury" enough MMO´s by now that i rather see devs err on the side of caution.

As for the hardcore note... Yesh... Most active people on this forum would fall in to that category... We are passionate and care about the game and the lore... But sometimes i think people get a bit to wrapped up in "the vision" contra "the reality" and i am personally glad that the devs have not ended up there yet.

I laughed at these statements. They talk like 3PV guarantee's the game will be a great success. Let me ask you PRO-3PV people something: Did 3PV save MW 3 or MW 4? They both had it. Nope, didn't think so.

[hammerreborn]

krash27, on 20 June 2013 - 04:57 PM, said:

I laughed at these statements. They talk like 3PV guarantee's the game will be a great success. Let me ask you PRO-3PV people something: Did 3PV save MW 3 or MW 4? They both had it. Nope, didn't think so.

What the hell are you going on about? Both MW 3 and MW4 were successful, as 3 clearly made enough to support making the expansions and greenlightning MW4, and MW4 had two expansions and made enough to greenlight the mechassault games...that then killed the game because console kiddies.

Edited by hammerreborn, 21 June 2013 - 08:20 AM.

[krash27]

hammerreborn, on 21 June 2013 - 08:20 AM, said:

What the hell are you going on about? Both MW 3 and MW4 were successful, as 3 clearly made enough to support making the expansions and greenlightning MW4, and MW4 had two expansions and made enough to greenlight the mechassault games...that then killed the game because console kiddies.

You are assuming I am saying that 3PV will kill the game. Show me where I said that. If you read it again it says that 3PV did not guarantee MW 3 and MW 4's success. IF you think the very few years these games were supported by their maker qualifies as successful then you and I see things differently. MechAssault killed itself, not MW 3 and MW 4. In the end MW 3 and MW 4 had very short life spans. I just have to laugh so hard, you talk about the expansions like they extended the games life drastically, they were all released in the same year or damn close. 4 years is not a long life span for a game. FYI MW 4 died due to lack of a player base since there was realy no mechanics for casuals. Played it for years in MWL, vengeance league etc.

Edited by krash27, 21 June 2013 - 02:51 PM.

[Kraven Kor]

Jacmac, on 17 June 2013 - 05:07 PM, said:

Why all of the worry over 3rd person? When it comes out only 10% of the player base is going to use it, and 90% instantly attain the status of "hard core" sim-head. PGI expects 3rd person to increase the casual player base by many time the current player base (or they are deluding themselves into thinking that 3rd person will convert existing players). I don't care if 3rd person exists as long as the 3rd person matches are separated from 1st person matches. Why would anyone care? If PGI thinks it will grow the game by putting in a cheeze mode, good luck to them.

Exactly.

At this point, all I want, is to try to ensure we keep the 1PV queue - and a PUG queue, not "scheduled 8v8 CW matches only" queue.

If they introduce 3PV and I find out that all the advantages and 'cheese' I remember from MW:4 and fear for MWO have been adequately addressed, I will apologize profusely.

They might add 3PV and get a bunch of players and if so, more power to them. I'd be happy to see it.

Again, I and many others could merely be misinterpreting their response, there may be nothing to fear at all. I'm not posting this with any vitriol, just keeping the pressure on in the only way I can to try and ensure we get at least that.

I do ask that those posting with vitriol about it, you know, 'scale it back a bit' but then some probably read my posts and think I'm all super angry. Not angry, not yellin', just postin'.

[Xtrekker]

3PV sells skins. I guarantee that's the primary motivation here. Arguing its validity or not is moot.