210 replies to this topic

[Fate 6]

WolvesX, on 15 June 2013 - 07:13 AM, said:

I like the BOOM factor, but I would never play it in 8v8.

Its got terrible range and its made out of paper.

AC40 is just because its fun to play.

And you would probably never play a medium in 8v8s right now either (the only viable one was the CN9-A zombie). AC40 makes the lives of medium mechs hell, and you should know that because you pilot a lot of mediums, or have you given up on that? The Jager is no more risky that a Hunchback or Blackjack - Hunchbacks have the hunch, and BJs have about as much CT armor as Jagers have in their LT or RT. It's not like Jagers have giant hitboxes - they're pretty average, if not on the small side.

[Bishop Steiner]

Training Instructor, on 18 June 2013 - 09:52 AM, said:

I think most of the people playing these are lonewolfing or playing in four mans. 8 man considerations are pretty low-priority, given the small percentage of the player-base that actually does 8 mans, mostly because the "pros" make it boring and unfun for most.

4-6 ppc stalkers. Please tell me more about broken builds used by the pros, I've never seen or used them outside of 8 man matches.

I see 1-2 nearly each match, and usually 2-3 Boomjagers. And that is while Pugging. With LRMers replacing poptarts.

[Takony]

Imagine this:

"Hey, let's make a brawling mech, I'm fed up with this PPC-fest all the time!
So, let's see, what else to bring to the brawl besides medium lasers?
Gauss my arse, I said BRAWL! Not to mention it explodes right into my face if I just go near an enemy mech ...
SRM? Bleh, even staring down the enemy hard, has more effect...
SSRM? Yeah, meh, they hit CT-s unerringly, but that's all about it, I want boom and dakka!
Ac2? That's long range harassment.
Ac5? Lol you can buy this too? What does it do? Eh.
Uac5? Hmm, I remember how these jam on the first shot, no thank you...
AC10? Hmm, sounds about ri... WHAT 12 freaking tons? The AC20 is only 2 tons more and double the damage lol!
AC20 OH LORD this is awesome! Now how can I carry two of these? Ach, hier ist diz phunny looking mech whizz hoch mounted arms with now lower arm actuators, named after some old pop star, this might work..."

Give me another good brawling weapon.
Until then, the tears are delicious.

[Mr 144]

lulz at "slow" AC/40 Jagers....

I don't consider ~77-82 kph slow for a heavy...

XL in a Jager? Every worthwhile jager build uses an XL...

Paper thin armor? ...lulz...max everywhere but legs...typicall with almost any mech..

Obviously some people just don't know how to build a mech these days...or have no clue what they're talking about.

280XL (with 2xML) ~77kph
300XL (no MLs) ~82kph
Endo
6-7 tons ammo
Max armor all but legs

No one should be running less than a 280 unless they're a horrible shot. 6 tons is a dmg potential of 840 without factoring in the 2xMLs...plenty for decent players.

[Bishop Steiner]

Mr 144, on 20 June 2013 - 03:42 AM, said:

lulz at "slow" AC/40 Jagers....

I don't consider ~77-82 kph slow for a heavy...

XL in a Jager? Every worthwhile jager build uses an XL...

Paper thin armor? ...lulz...max everywhere but legs...typicall with almost any mech..

Obviously some people just don't know how to build a mech these days...or have no clue what they're talking about.

280XL (with 2xML) ~77kph
300XL (no MLs) ~82kph
Endo
6-7 tons ammo
Max armor all but legs

No one should be running less than a 280 unless they're a horrible shot. 6 tons is a dmg potential of 840 without factoring in the 2xMLs...plenty for decent players.

77 kph becomes slow when your optimal engagement range is 270 meters, and maximum REALISTIC range is 500-ish
(the projectile goes farther but is slow dang slow you will only hit shutdown and afk opponents), and the Meta is 1500-2000m sniping with 4 er-ppc and or Gauss.

XL is in all major Jagerbuilds, but all other versions of Jagers can engage at long range, meaning they don't have their XLs exposed to enemy fire for prolonged periods before they can retaliate.

Armor is light when the current Meta is to snipe 4-6 PPC at you from across the map (particularly when it appears many people are using exploits or outright hacks in the graphics). and can melt all your CT armor in a single shot. (And core your side torsos with the XL)

Context. It's all about the context.

[Mentalcowman]

Hillareous how he started this topic, i just dropped vs him and his 4 man all using ac40 jagers, vs pugs it IS cheese and overpowered whatever way you look at it, sugar coat it doesnt work for me.

[Mr 144]

lulz at 1500-2000 meter "meta" with ERPPCs and Gauss...

Gauss is useless at those ranges...ERPPCs at ~5 dmg a piece...Oh Noes!

Complete Forum warrior BS 'meta' exageration.

[MaddMaxx]

BlackIronTarkus, on 18 June 2013 - 08:49 AM, said:

AC/20 dmg 20.00 heat 6.00 cooldown 4.00

Cooldown drop to 3.80 with fast fire.

Double AC/20 is 40 damage pinpoint every 4sec.

I believe the internal structure is 50% of the total possible armor hit points in that section. So if you have 50 points in your CT between your back and front, you'd have 25 internal structure. Correct me if Im wrong.

With perfect aim, always aiming at the center torso, assuming all the back armor have been put on the front and they are completly undamaged(we all know that is never the case) you can kill mechs in;

Commando => 48 => 2 shots = 8 seconds.
spider => 60 => 2 shots = 8 seconds.
jenner => 66 => 2 shots = 8 seconds.
raven => 66 => 2 shots = 8 seconds.

cicada => 68 => 2 shots = 8 seconds.
blackjack => 84 => 3 shots = 12 seconds.
centurion => 96 => 3 shots = 12 seconds.
hunchback => 96 => 3 shots = 12 seconds.
trebuchet => 95 => 3 shots = 12 seconds.

dragon => 120 => 3 shots = 12 seconds.
catapult => 126 => 4 shots = 16 seconds.
jagermech => 126 => 4 shots = 16 seconds.
catafphract => 132 => 4 shots = 16 seconds.

awesome => 150 => 4 shots = 16 seconds.
stalker => 162 => 5 shots = 20 seconds.
highlander => 174 => 5 shots = 20 seconds.
stalker => 186 => 5 shots = 20 seconds.

Thats definatly broken, considering the ease to fire that gun with pinpoint accuracy. Of course catching a light is not as easy, but really, the problem is not lying there.

A tad presumptuous I am guessing. These Mechs you list are ALL standing still? If a Stalker dies to 5 straight AC40 blasts, without removing a AC20 from the shooter, it is not the weapon that killed that Stalker, it was the "dumber than a bag of hammers" pilot.

[Yanlowen Cage]

TELEFORCE, on 15 June 2013 - 07:19 AM, said:

I've played the dual AC/20 Jagermech, and it is fun, but it is far from being viable, especially when you can randomly get a long-range map and get screwed from the start, which is, IMO, good for game balance.

Dual Gauss rifles are far more viable due to their range and faster travel time, but I still tote small and medium ACs the most. Currently running dual AC/2s and UAC/5s and small lasers, and it's by far the biggest damage dealer in my hangar.

Name two maps that are long range and have no cover thus chopping the metaphorical legs off an ac40 jager? I will start. Alpine peaks.... wait can't think of anymore. Also 20 damage at 540 meters is respectable and more then my large lasers do at 450. 2 of them that is. Large lasers also require that they are held on target to due full damage. Not so with the ac. Not saying ac40 jagers are op, rather that they are not nearly the easy to defend vs glass canon everyone tries to make them out to be. Oh number 2 caustic, but again that is a circle jerk around the crater most of the time anyway. And a 78 kph jager can use the cover on that map fairly easily. Furthermore it is not the ac40 jager that kills me it is the follow up mecha after the ac40 jager wipes my armor off. My fault for playing mediums I guess.

Edited by Yanlowen Cage, 20 June 2013 - 06:39 AM.