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How To Fix And Balance This Game


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#1 Stat1cVoiD

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Posted 18 June 2013 - 02:18 AM

I think MWO could be an awesome game, but I feel that it's currently heading into the wrong direction. I also figured that many people flaming in the forums doesn't seem to have the general experience with multiplayer shooters or MWO in particular to see whats really going on here and what the real problems are. And sometimes I get the feeling that even the devs don't know what they are developing.
After a good amount of played time, talking to a lot of people and reading a lot of stuff, I came up with this summary of ideas to balance the game, make it more fun and give it a brighter future ;):

#1 Maps:
Rework most of the maps.
Besides all the fancy Mech Stuff and Tank-Like movement, MWO remains a FPS.
And weapons in a FPS are only balanced if the environment is balanced.
Weapons are usually designed to be either superior on a given range, resp. situation and terrible on another, or to deliver a reasonable allround performance, without giving special advantages.
That means:
If the area where the weapons are used is constantly favoring a certain playstyle (F.e. sniping), other weapons will look inferior.
Since the dawn of multiplayer shooters, combining slow movement-speed and open maps led to inflationary Sniper-Rifle usage and camping.
And what do we got in MWO?
Vast and open maps and giant, clunky targets.
If this would be any other scenario, except Battlemechs, everyone would be running around with Sniper-Rifles all day and no one would blame the weapon itself, but the maps and the mechanics.
But unfortunately most players seem to be so dazzled by the fact that they are piloting a giant robot, that they don't see that they are still playing a Shooter with a new livery.
I consider canyon to be the most balanced map right now, since the canyons offer alternate routes to close the distance to a camping Snipe team.
Most other maps offer either little to no cover and huge plains, turning you into a sitting duck or doesn't offer reasonable alternate attack-paths, forcing you to go Leeroy Jenkins or to camp where you are.
Additionally, pretty much every map offers spots which are ridiculously easy to defend and give you vision and a clear line of fire over more or less half the map.
Alpine in particular is one of the worst maps I've seen in a online shooter in a long time.
It isn't only way too open, rendering every brawler build pretty much useless, it is also highly favoring the team which spawns next to the retardedly easy to defend mountain which offers absolute map control.
While you might not see this problem in a lower ELO-Game or in a solo Drop, experienced Players and especially organized teams will just stack on PPCs and turn the game into a camp-fest, while not leaving you a single opportunity to engange them in a close combat.
The only way of dealing with them is to do the exact same.
Bottom Line:
As long as the maps are highly favoring long range combat and camping, you can balance the weapons' stats as long as you like, you will never make brawling or allround builds a valid choice over snipe builds, as long as the enemy team knows whats it's doing.

#2 Weapons
Lasers and Ballistics
While Lasers seem absolute fine to me and doesn't need to be touched at all right now, most Ballistics need way too much tonnage and - above all - slots to be up to par with the dominating PPCs.
Since the TT is still the basis for the Loadout-balancing, doubling the armor, but increasing the ammo by only 20-25% per ton creates a situation where you have to deal double the damage with only less than one quarter of additional ammunition.
That means:
If you rely on the TT's loadout-values in terms of balancing, which PGI is obviously doing, Ballistic Weapons are less weight- and slot-efficient than they are supposed to be.
While you can build a Laser- or PPC-build in the same way you could in the TT, you have to cut important options if you mount weapons which require sufficient amounts of ammo.
Therefore ammo has to be increased by about 50% per ton to a total of 175%.

Splash-Damage
Unguided splash-damage weapons (SRMs and LB-10X) are more than terrible in the current meta game. While not only being limited to a combat range which isn't efficient right now (as explained above), they are also in contrast to the need of focussing the damage on vital components.
If you spread your damage over the whole enemy Mech you might need 8 times more damage to get it killed.
As a result, they are inferior to nearly every other weapon with pinpoint-Accuracy even on their optimal range.
To make up for that they should have to deal way more damage than they are currently doing.
SRM's damage have to be increased to 2 and their bulletspeed has to be doubled, since they are also stupidly hard to hit as a cluster, compared to other weapons.
The LB-10X has to be made lighter and smaller, since regarding its limited fields of application, it is a way too big commitment for a side gun and way too constrained for a main weapon.
Another option would be to make it even heavier but to include an alternate fire-mode to switch between normal AC/10 ammunition and lead shot, giving it an interesting amount of versatility.

LRMs
Though LRMs are heavily discussed, I think that they are fine how they are right now. If boated, they can deliver a fair amount of damage, while being a big commitment and as a side gun, they offer a nice effect by screen-shaking the enemy Mech and giving the option of indirect fire.
With lower damage they would be completely useless again and by increasing their damage even more, they would be too strong considering how they work and how skillless they can be used.
At the current state of ECMs however, they are still pretty weak, but this will be discussed later on.
Let's move on to the current FotM:

PPCs
(ER) PPCs are currently the Kings of the Battlefield.
They leave a lot of room for other stuff or more PPCs, thanks to their low weight- and slot-costs, are ridiculously heat-efficient compared to Lasers and the fact that they are less likely to spread their damage and are retardedly easy to hit thanks to having the highest bulletspeed in the game.
Furthermore they cover the optimal combat range in this game by being superior from 800m to 90m.
Even if not fired in a "one-shot"-Alpha, they still deliver a hard impact and encourage sniping and camping, while moving in and out of cover.
Thanks to this playstyle and the open maps, Overheating isn't a big deal since you can pick your shots and move into cover if getting too hot:
While a high cadency, the result of a good heat-efficiency, comes mostly into play in a brawling situation, where you need to deal more DPS than your opponent in order to survive, you can easily prevent your enemy from closing in, by stacking PPCs, coordinating the team and abusing the maps as mentioned above.
Their only weakpoints are hitting fast and small targets and very close combats.
It is the #1 Sniping weapon in this game, by delivering the highest pinpoint-accuracy (by Bulletspeed) at one of the biggest impacts/shot. It takes very few room, considering its effectiveness and is also more than viable on encounters up to only 50m (which is basically facehugging).
This makes it the ultimate weapon considering how the gameplay of focussing single components, along with the open maps and the slowness of most of the targets is designed.
To make other weapons a viable choice again the damage has to be reduced to about 8, considering how many of them you are able to mount.
Also the Heat has to be increased by one and the minimum Range has to be set to an absolute value of about 180m, while delivering ZERO damage to closer targets.
To make up for that the maximum Range could be increased by 100.
Also the Bulletspeed has to be reduced by 500 to make hitting targets at least a little bit of a challenge, compared to any other weapon in the game.
This would turn this weapon into a commited Snipe-Weapon, instead of the jack-of-all-trades it is right now. Still superior on long range, but useless if caught off guard, like in ANY OTHER GAME.
Instead of reducing the damage, another idea would be the solution this guy posted:
(Pater Mors, Post #5)
http://mwomercs.com/...crazy-ppc-idea/

#3 Boating:
If weapons and maps would be balanced, boating wouldn't be a problem.
If I stack up on a single type of weapons, I stack their advantages, but also their disadvantages.
A good example is the LRM boat: While being strong on long range encounters, you are a helpless victim to everything closer than 180m. You can also be countered pretty easily by a sufficient amount of AMS or an ECM, rendering you pretty much useless.
Another example is the 2xAC/20 Jager: Though technically not being a "boat", it is a commitment to a single type of weapons. I know that there is much hate going on against that build, but from my experience it is in fact nothing more than a Noob-Basher.
While being very strong against unorganized teams, where everyone does what he wants and runs around where he likes to, you are usually able to move your Jager into its dreaded striking range.
Against teams who know how to abuse the maps, play together and focus their fire, you will have a very hard time with this loadout.
Since it is limited to an effective attack range of about 500m, where the shots are already very hard to hit in the right place, thanks to the slow Bulletspeed of 900, it will usually be shred to pieces without ever getting within 300m and below.
Boating Lasers on the other Hand is not an option for many light and medium Mechs, but an imperative: While having a very narrow tonnage limit, medium and small Lasers are the only way of achieving a useful amount of DPS. This comes at the price of a limited range and a high probability of spreading the damage.
On the other Hand, boating Large Lasers on bigger Mechs creates heat-intensive allround builds, which can be outplayed by torso-twisting, are hard to aim precicely and force the switch to chainfire in order to prevent overheating in a brawling situation, reducing the DPS and focussed damage a lot.
PPCs however can also be boatet heavily, thanks to their low weight- and slot-costs, as explained above.
Boating PPCs is not OP because boated PPCs are OP. It is OP because single PPCs are OP.
If the PPC would have sufficient drawbacks to make up for its advantages, boating would be the same sort of tradeoff like it is with any other weapon.
Currently you are able to deal the highest amount of focussed damage in the shortest possible time over the optimal range in this game.
As soon as this stops and reasonable drawbacks are added (as suggested above), boating PPCs will become a serious commitment to a special range and situation, as any other boat already is.
That means:
Boating is only a problem as long as stats and the gameplay are not delivering sufficient drawbacks to make up for a weapon's advantages.

#4 Alphas:
High Alphas are only a horrible threat, if all the weapons which are fired simultaneously have the same behavior:
As long as you fire f.e. 2 Lasers, 1 AC and 1 set of LRMs, the damage will most likely spread over the target, since the Bulletspeed and flight pattern of the projectiles differ and would require different aiming points in order to land in the same spot.
The newly implemented Heat-System, which punishes the simultaneous fireing of the exact same weapons, will not change most of the current problematics:
While fireing 4 PPCs at a time will now create a significant amount of additional Heat, firing 2 PPC and 2 ER PPCs won't.
Also 2xAC/20 or 2xGauss isn't affected.
A very easy solution to this problem, instead of complicating the game by this new stupid system, while achieving nearly nothing and ninja nerfing balanced light and medium builds, is to force a firing delay between multiple weapons in the game except Lasers and Missiles (for obvious reasons).
If multiple weapons are fired with a forced delay of 0.25 seconds by default (because the reactor cannot handle those energy spikes, blah, blah,...), components have to be hit sequentially instead of in one big blow. Thus firing 4 PPCs into the exact same spot would require 1 whole second of concentrated aiming.
If weapons would be mixed, f.e. an AC/5 with a PPC, the DPS would pretty much stay the same, because after one cycle was fired the different cooldowns will have adjusted.
Lasers and Rockets wouldn't be affected and could be added at any time to the firing cycle, given their cooldowns ready.
Additionally the game would look much better and be more fun to play, since Mechs would spit out a constant stream of bullets, rockets and lasers, instead of firing their whole load in one big blast, while walking around, doing nothing most of the time and waiting for their cooldowns to finish again.

#5 Modules and Gimmicks
While most of the modules and gimmicks are fine, two of them have to be reworked:

a) The Seismic
This module is the ultimate must-have, no matter which mech you play or which weapons you fit.
You see all enemy movement around you, which makes it pretty much impossible to get caught off guard.
As being considered as a legal "Wall-Hack" by many people, it is way too strong as it is right now.
The easiest way to tune this Module down, without rendering it useless, is to tweak the amount of information it delivers by not making every move visible but only check the position of enemy mechs in a fixed interval.
If you have watched the second Alien movie (which you should do right now, if you haven't!), a system similar to the Motion Trackers used there would be a fine solution.
F.e. every 10 seconds a circular pulse with your mech in its center, expanding over the range of 400m, which reveals the position of enemy Mechs around you for 1 or 2 seconds at the time the pulse reached them on the minimap.
Now you have to wait about 9 seconds to see again where they went. If you have missed a pulse, your bad, pay attention.
No more precise knowledge of every move, but still very useful. Problem solved.

B)ECM
Currently the ECM is also a must have for every team, since it delivers pretty much absolute protection against LRMs, rendering an AMS useless and encouraging camping.
It turns LRMs into direct fire weapons since you need to keep the targets tagged in order to make anything happen, which is not only killing the LRMs advantage of breaking entrenched positions, but also very hard to pull off.
The solution?
Pulses again!
Make the ECM send out a pulse in the same way as explained for the Seismic above, f.e. every 15 seconds.
As soon as the pulse reaches a friendly Mech, all targeting data of this Mech will be wiped and he has to be targeted again, like if he moved freshly into the line of sight.
LRMs have a given window of opportunity to be fired off, but are still hindered to develop their maximum effectiveness, since they require to be locked on again after a given interval.
Ta-dah! Problem solved.

#6 Balancing Mech-Usage:
Another big problem is the inflationary usage of Assault and Heavy Mechs.
I opened another thread with an idea to solve that problem and I don't want to flood the forums with reposts:
http://mwomercs.com/...w-sub-gamemode/

#7 Ease of use
There are some minor issues with this game which are just annoying or have to be worked around by macro-usage, though they are very easy to fix:
- Add check-boxes to the game options which activate an automatic rebuy of used consumables after each match, one for CBills, one for MC.
- Add a new toggle button to switch the firemode of Ultra ACs between "Safe Mode" and normal, so that players have the option of firing them only off cooldown. This can currently already be achieved by a macro.
- Give the Tag-Laser an on- and off-switch. Regarding how it works it is the most logical thing to do and it can also already be done by using a macro or by jamming coins into the keyboard.
- Tweak the visual(!) effect of the JJ-shake down, because it is annoying as hell.

#8 Minor Balancing:
- Add ER Variants of Small and Medium Lasers to give light and medium Mechs more diversity.
- Tweak the aiming penalty of the JJ-Shake down for light and medium Mechs as you promised.
- DO NOT implement 3rd Person view. The Cockpit View is one of the major features which makes this game stand out over other titles. Do not give that up.
- NEVER make any Laser have a higher HPS than a PPC!
- DO NOT implement a cone of fire for firing while moving! This will take a lot of dynamics from the fights and will mostly hurt light and medium Mechs. Being able to fire accurate while moving is ONE core feature which makes this game stand out and deliver action packed fights.

If tl;dr:
Go troll somewhere else.

At all the other guys:
Thx for reading.

I am German and English is not my native language. Keep that in mind before going full Grammar {Godwin's Law} on me. Thx.

Edited by Stat1cVoiD, 19 June 2013 - 04:27 PM.


#2 Aylek

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Posted 18 June 2013 - 08:21 AM

I can agree with most points you made. Hopefully at least some bits of it finds it's way to the devs. ;-)

#3 Syllogy

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Posted 18 June 2013 - 08:23 AM

I don't see any empirical evidence to support any theories...

#4 Stat1cVoiD

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Posted 18 June 2013 - 08:54 AM

View PostSyllogy, on 18 June 2013 - 08:23 AM, said:

I don't see any empirical evidence to support any theories...


I had a way longer version of this post with stats and numbers in mind, but then i realized that most people would already know the issues from their own game experience and that it would only increase the size of this wall of text even more.
If you cannot understand any of the mentioned problems and/or my theories to solve them, than you are either a very lucky guy or should play some more games to figure them out by yourself.

#5 Stat1cVoiD

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Posted 18 June 2013 - 03:46 PM

LPL are generating more heat than PPCs now... GJ PGI,... GJ.

#6 TemplarMedic

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Posted 18 June 2013 - 08:27 PM

i find it hard to really argue any of your points. You are not wrong. But i can't say i completely agree

biggest issue imo is what you were stating with the map issues. most maps are CLEARLY imbalanced, even with random PuGs. There is not 1 map that i can think of that doesnt have some area that just dominates the battlefield.

Edited by eSyLeonhart, 18 June 2013 - 08:29 PM.


#7 ExtremeA79

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Posted 18 June 2013 - 08:54 PM

I understand the problems of this game and you have explained them in this thread. However, ECM is not currently a problem right now as BAP hardcounters it and PPC fire disables it for a while. Then you have TAG. It isn't a must have on a team though it is useful. If you are coordinating with your time they are no problem unless you are facing a coordinated team as well.
Seismic is unbalanced but not super overpowered, just needs some tweaking and that's it.


Then we get to solutions. I absolutely disagree on all of them. Some Are out of the time line (ER for all lasers) and others are just bad. Some are ok but there are better suggestions. The main problem of this game is the ability to boat on mechs that should not boat while boating at levels that in canon your mech would end up a molten slag. (6 ppc stalker)
The other problem is heat.

Now finally. What does PGI call this game? A simulator. This game is simulating battle tech, TT in first person. Simulating what happens in novels. Either it is a real simulator like PGI calls it and how the rest of the mechwarrior's were, or we just drop he simulator, and stray away from canon. (mechassault) What do you want? I think this game can't be simulator while being only a online PvP game developed by a company that doesn't have significant experience. So I will conclude. I will accept any changes for the sake of balance. Forget canon.

#8 Stat1cVoiD

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Posted 19 June 2013 - 01:23 AM

View PostDarren Tyler, on 18 June 2013 - 08:54 PM, said:

Spoiler



It seems to me, that we expect different things from this game.
You want it to be very accurate in terms of fluff and simulation, I want a balanced team-based online shooter, where the Gameplay is competetive, versatile, fair and in general a lot of fun.
I don't see this game being or becoming any sort of realistic simulation in the near future:
The way how Mechs move (f.e. standing on a tiny ledge or walking up steep faces) offends even the most basic laws of physics. They turn about 50 tons in the blink of an eye accurate from left to right and fire their weapons always steady, even while slipping down a hill.
If you move two Mechs at about 80kph into each other, they glitch around altough the kinetic energy of dozens of tons colliding at this speed would crush them.
Your cockpit has quantities of buttons and switches, but you only use three of them to start your Mech.
Besides that you just have to move and shoot, like in any other shooter.
There is no real simulation of piloting a giant warmachine, since everything seems to be automated and you have barely any influence on your critical systems:
You have no control over your engine's energy distribution, do not have to redirect damaged conduits, cannot shut down or eject components, resp. ammo, which are about to explode and therefore threatening your structural integrity, etc.,...
This is what i expect of being the pilot of a nuclear powered giant robot.
The damage systems of this game only knows "healthy" and "destroyed", there is no "damaged":
F.e. weapons would missfire or even backfire if damaged in reality or if your Gyro or Actuators would take damage, the functionality of the limbs would be hindered.
Nothing of that. You sit in your Mech and fire away.
So it is not a simulation to me, but a very good online shooter. And this is where i adress my balancing changes at, because i have to work with what is actually there.

Having the fluff entirely controling the game's mechanics and balancing isn't a design choice which will lead to good results imho, because it was written for a TT and not for a Shooter.
I think that you have to take the fluff into account for every feature you develop, but in the end you should decide in terms of playability and usability.

Edited by Stat1cVoiD, 19 June 2013 - 01:27 AM.


#9 Syrkres

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Posted 19 June 2013 - 12:04 PM

I think the simplest way to fix the balance is put in weight limits on drops....

Reason people complain about High alpha builds is when they run into a team or lance of 4 stalkers with 6PPC builds and get focus fired down in a single shot. Solution - Weight limit would stop 4 stalkers from dropping together so you may only get 2 (MAX) and then they would have no other Assaults on that team.

No one every complained about the 6 ML jenner running about (well some did), but nothing compared to the lances of HGN pop tarting from behind hills with no chance to even get close. Again SOLUTION, weight limit, by restricting how much weight a lance can bring to a map, limits how many HGN pop tarts one can have. yet we put in a solution to stop poptarting.

We are introducing so many new issues by adding bandaids to fix problems that would NOT exist only if they fixed the first issue, which they got rid of a long time ago - weight balance.

There are a variety of dropships, and the Overlord can carry 45 Mechs, so I assume you could fit 12(8) Assaults in there, but assume we are not using Overlords for our drops. (since we only have 12 mechs - 8 currently).

Fix Match making/implement Weight drops (solves many problems - which otherwise would likely NOT exist).

Edited by Syrkres, 19 June 2013 - 12:05 PM.


#10 TemplarMedic

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Posted 19 June 2013 - 12:31 PM

View PostSyrkres, on 19 June 2013 - 12:04 PM, said:

I think the simplest way to fix the balance is put in weight limits on drops....

Reason people complain about High alpha builds is when they run into a team or lance of 4 stalkers with 6PPC builds and get focus fired down in a single shot. Solution - Weight limit would stop 4 stalkers from dropping together so you may only get 2 (MAX) and then they would have no other Assaults on that team.

No one every complained about the 6 ML jenner running about (well some did), but nothing compared to the lances of HGN pop tarting from behind hills with no chance to even get close. Again SOLUTION, weight limit, by restricting how much weight a lance can bring to a map, limits how many HGN pop tarts one can have. yet we put in a solution to stop poptarting.

We are introducing so many new issues by adding bandaids to fix problems that would NOT exist only if they fixed the first issue, which they got rid of a long time ago - weight balance.

There are a variety of dropships, and the Overlord can carry 45 Mechs, so I assume you could fit 12(8) Assaults in there, but assume we are not using Overlords for our drops. (since we only have 12 mechs - 8 currently).

Fix Match making/implement Weight drops (solves many problems - which otherwise would likely NOT exist).


I can agree with this totally. Couple days ago i had a match where i hade 6 jagermechs on my team. We lost Horribly. Day after that the enemy team had 5 light mechs. I think a weight limit is a great starting point and is needed but that we would also need some form of a minimum limit so not everyone is using lights and mediums against assaults n heavies.

#11 Syrkres

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Posted 19 June 2013 - 12:41 PM

Correct, match making needs to set limits on weight, but if a group comes in under that weight, then that is their choice.

For example lets say you limit (as an example people) to 2 Assault, 2 heavies, 2 Mediums, 2 lights and a group comes in with 4 lights, then the other group comes in with 2 assaults and 2 lights, that is within the weight limit.

What Should not happen is for group 2 to then come in with 4 assaults because group 1 came in with 4 lights. But I don't know, maybe it is based on total weight? (I think this would still be somewhat of an issue).

So a way to do this is weight by lance (in 4 mans) and then eight mans have a total weight. if weight is the factor.

So a lance under 4 man would be 1A/1H/1M/1L = 260tons?

You could even use the same tonnage under 8 mans, a single lance cannot be over the 260. So if once lance decides to go light the other lance still has a 260 ton limit.

The way to do it is once you get in game then regroup and form the lances so you are properly groups (which you can do today).

Edited by Syrkres, 19 June 2013 - 12:47 PM.


#12 Stat1cVoiD

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Posted 19 June 2013 - 04:25 PM

View PostSyrkres, on 19 June 2013 - 12:04 PM, said:

I think the simplest way to fix the balance is put in weight limits on drops....


Follow my link at #6 "Mech Usage"
I adressed that point there and found a solution which will prevent 6 Stalkers but isn't specifically bound to a fixed tonnage limit, because I think that would barely work with random teams.

#13 K1realAty

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Posted 21 June 2013 - 09:03 AM

Awesome ideas, dude! I hope PGI will at least make some of this happen...





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