15 replies to this topic

[Mechsniper]

I have to state that I believe at this point macros for chain fire have become an exploit that need stopped. If chain fire is not working correctly, please fix it. Unless you go buy a gaming mouse or keyboard or add another program to your computer you do not have the capability to match rates of fire. It would be easy to limit the chain fire rate to stop this I would think. If U/AC's and AC's are meant to fire this fast, then fix the rate so that everyone gets the same ability. At this point most players don't feel they should have to download what amounts to a cheat to those that don't do it. This is my opinion, it differs from even some in my corps, but I feel this needs addressed in an update SOON.

[von Pilsner]

It was addressed, as it does not change the DPS it was decided that it was fine to use it...

I tried using the number keys to start the super chaining process by pressing 3-6 quickly then holding down the 'fire selected' button (which has all AC2s in the same group). The rapid fire works this way (manually) as well as by using a macro. It's a little tricky to get the timing correct but after a few tries it was quite easy...

Soooooo, I would say that people can fire faster then chainfire manually if desired.

Here is a pic that shows manual rapid-fire in action (no Fraps, sorry) you can see that I did not quite wait enough for group 6 but you still get the crazy rapid-fire effect of the AC2's.




From: http://mwomercs.com/...ost__p__2303704

Niko Snow said:

Macro use is nearly impossible to prove and is effect on the game is mostly negligible for now. This would also be a hot topic were we playing a MUD but even since then it is hard to create a blanket against it. If you have reason to believe this is producing an unfair advantage for certain players please contact us at support@mwomercs.com with all the details. Thanks!

So I guess they are fine...

[Hammerfinn]

Using the macro doesn't change the damage or heat generation of the weapon, it just makes it SOUND scarier. I don't use macros myself, because I think they're cheap, but obviously it's working... :-D

[Felicitatem Parco]

von Pilsner, on 11 May 2013 - 11:25 AM, said:

Here is a pic that shows manual rapid-fire in action (no Fraps, sorry) you can see that I did not quite wait enough for group 6 but you still get the crazy rapid-fire effect of the AC2's.

That;'s pretty close to how I set them up, but you can save yourself a little redundancy by setting the top AC/2 to just the master group - it doesn't really need to be in both groups 2 and 3.

If the top weapon is set to the master group, then you can trigger it with the master firing group button after individually firing the other three. So, you'd have weapon groups like this:

AC/2 - 2
AC/2 - 2,3
AC/2 - 2,4
AC/2 - 2,5

Then you roll your fingers over the 3->5 keys and click-and-hold Mouse 2 to fire the fourth gun and perpetuate the other three along with it

So, rapid-fire AC/2's is not a cheat because no macro is involved.

Edited by Prosperity Park, 11 May 2013 - 11:42 AM.

[-Muta-]

Noobs, no hands that try to get themselves a better ratio boost that is done by a macro...

Really Id rather be a noob that will eventually learn how to master my skills than a nobody that cant make it happen on his own.

▓Mutaroc▓

[Wintersdark]

Mechsniper, on 11 May 2013 - 11:15 AM, said:

I have to state that I believe at this point macros for chain fire have become an exploit that need stopped. If chain fire is not working correctly, please fix it. Unless you go buy a gaming mouse or keyboard or add another program to your computer you do not have the capability to match rates of fire. It would be easy to limit the chain fire rate to stop this I would think. If U/AC's and AC's are meant to fire this fast, then fix the rate so that everyone gets the same ability. At this point most players don't feel they should have to download what amounts to a cheat to those that don't do it. This is my opinion, it differs from even some in my corps, but I feel this needs addressed in an update SOON.

Sorry, but you're just wrong. Macro's do not allow you to fire any faster.

Even if a macro is involved, chain firing like that does not achieve higher dps. It's at best a disadvantage, as you can spread damage more.

4 AC/2's firing as a group will hit one location for 8 damage every .5s, chain firing like that they'll be hitting for 2 damage roughly every .125s - the same DPS but with the potential to spread around more.

Macro-chainfiring gains no benefit other than sounding ***KING AWESOME, and is from a game mechanics standpoint arguably inferior.

[Donas]

Wintersdark, on 11 May 2013 - 12:03 PM, said:

Sorry, but you're just wrong. Macro's do not allow you to fire any faster.

Even if a macro is involved, chain firing like that does not achieve higher dps. It's at best a disadvantage, as you can spread damage more.

4 AC/2's firing as a group will hit one location for 8 damage every .5s, chain firing like that they'll be hitting for 2 damage roughly every .125s - the same DPS but with the potential to spread around more.

Macro-chainfiring gains no benefit other than sounding ***KING AWESOME, and is from a game mechanics standpoint arguably inferior.

Exactly this. There has to be 10 threads on exactly this topic. The only macro out there that provides an advantage is not on an AC2. The AC2 one is purely for look and sound. There have been those that disbelieve this and will point to the constant cockpit shake as an advantage, but with the AC2 having the lowest cockpit shake in the game, barring only MG's and Lasers (which have none) this advantage is extremely negligable. And since you can also perform this effect without any macro (and without hampering your ability to maneuver, by setting the startup groups to 4,3,2 and having the final group be your mouse button) it makes the AC2 macro a complete non-issue.

Now, an UAC5 macro that times shots so that jamming is impossible? Completely different story. But, as its not what the OP was referring to, I assume its not on the radar of the complaint.

Shake Numbers (last I saw)
AC2 .075
AC5 .1875
SSRM2 .576
LRM5 1.4

[Wintersdark]

Yeah, cockpit shake (it's purely visual, and doesn't affect aim) is trivial with AC2's and even 5's, really. There's really no difference when on the receiving end of chain fired or group fired AC2's.

UAC5 macroing doesn't make them necessarily better, and can be managed by a careful hand, but it DOES offer you the certainty of a hassle free continuous fire. Note that it DOESN'T let you ultra-fire safely, of course, just single-fire without the hassle.

I've macro'd my UAC's for that, but only use single fire when I'm going to have a long window of engagement. More frequently, I just ultrafire them - in that case, they function much more like a very light AC20, putting out about 20 damage in 1.1 seconds on average, then having a 5s cooldown. Ultrafire with large lasers (where they work well with the 1.25s beam duration) then twist away/seek cover during the cooldown.

[Red squirrel]

Donas, on 11 May 2013 - 12:45 PM, said:

[...]
Now, an UAC5 macro that times shots so that jamming is impossible? Completely different story. But, as its not what the OP was referring to, I assume its not on the radar of the complaint.
[...]

Mechsniper, on 11 May 2013 - 11:15 AM, said:

[...]
If U/AC's and AC's are meant to fire this fast
[...]

[IceSerpent]

Prosperity Park, on 11 May 2013 - 11:40 AM, said:

That;'s pretty close to how I set them up, but you can save yourself a little redundancy by setting the top AC/2 to just the master group - it doesn't really need to be in both groups 2 and 3.

If the top weapon is set to the master group, then you can trigger it with the master firing group button after individually firing the other three. So, you'd have weapon groups like this:

AC/2 - 2
AC/2 - 2,3
AC/2 - 2,4
AC/2 - 2,5

Then you roll your fingers over the 3->5 keys and click-and-hold Mouse 2 to fire the fourth gun and perpetuate the other three along with it

So, rapid-fire AC/2's is not a cheat because no macro is involved.

Thanks for the explanation - I was wondering what the heck OP is talking about. Apparently weapon groups are "cheese" these days.

[Mechsniper]

No, the problems are that you cannot click your mouse fast enough and steady enough not to jam UA/C's or shoot AC2's that quick constantly. L2P yourselves cheese lovers. There is much the devs have blessed that stinks so far. If it is to be in game, put it there, if not.......

[Sensaisean]

Yes, yes you can. You have no idea what you're talking about dude. They showed you how to macro it using different weapons groups using JUST your numbers row. You are just being a baby. The issue HAS been addressed and IGP is fine with it the way it is. Besides, catching people who use macros is nearly impossible as most programs emulate actual keyboard strokes. Most online competitive games utilize macros to maximize efficiency, like Starcraft 2, and Wow. It is not cheating and often only serves to make the game boring for the macro user. So suck it up, and deal bro. It is a major part of PC gaming.

[Pater Mors]

Mechsniper, on 13 May 2013 - 03:35 PM, said:

No, the problems are that you cannot click your mouse fast enough and steady enough not to jam UA/C's

You can actually. In testing grounds I have fired off more than 100 on 2x UAC5's using only MB1. In combat it's a hell of a lot harder, but I can still do 20 to 30 rounds without jamming on a good day. It is hard to master, but it is doable.

90% of the time I cbf and just let it jam though.

[Mk1Cursed]

Having got Autohotkey working to macro dual ACs in the last week I'd have to say I'm a fan and for those with wonky aim like me I think it's a small but not insignificant advantage when spamming at lights. I'd rather 50% of "half strength" shots hit than perhaps miss all of them at full strength. The downside being spreading damage around at long range.

I'm suprised how many Stalkers and Atlas dislike and will change position to avoid getting hit every 0.25s even from something as weak as AC2s. I guess who has time to watch their paperdoll armour and realise their armour is only very slowly changing colour.

But fundamentally chain fire in game should just work correctly.
I've now go AHK, Teamspeak and Mumble all installed to stand in for features that should just flipping work.

[aniviron]

Even though I don't find it to be a competitive advantage, the fact that so many players are using macros implies that something should be changed, and this should be something you can do in-game without having to use extra software. Some of it just makes sense, like having TAG be toggle on/off so you don't need to keep holding it down, whereas the autocannons could be a bit trickier.

[Zerberus]

Mechsniper, on 13 May 2013 - 03:35 PM, said:

No, the problems are that you cannot click your mouse fast enough and steady enough not to jam UA/C's or shoot AC2's that quick constantly. L2P yourselves cheese lovers. There is much the devs have blessed that stinks so far. If it is to be in game, put it there, if not.......

Dude, seruoisly, just quit already.

I can click a mousebutton faster than .5 seconds, any child can. .5 iseconds s actually the default cutoff for a WIndows "doubleclick". So if you`re even capable of opening the game (unless you use an input mode designed for physically handicapped users), you`re (physically) capable of firing AC2s faster than standard chainfire. No amount of contrary verbage can hide the truth, it always rises to the top.

People have shown you how to do it both with macros and manually, people like myself that don`t use macros can still do it just fine, it`s EXPLICITLY ALLOWED in teh rules, and specifically thedakkadakka ac2 macro is arguably a self imposed nerf, which be definition is not an advantage.

Yet you continuously refuse to accept any and all of these damning arguments as valid, showcasing the fact that you are on an absolutely pointless and misguided crusade against something that is very obviously not even remotely close to being what you purport it to be.

When all available proof says you`re wrong and you refuse to believe it soleley based on what you yourself believe but cannot prove nor disprove, you cross from the realm of rational thought and logic (2 prerequisites for intelligent discourse) into voodoo and hoogey boogey myths. Were this a formal proceeding in a court or similar setting, dozens of people would be laughing or scratching their heads, assuming they haven`t exploded by the sheer volume of ignorance you are displaying. No intelligent person should feel any need to continue debating this with you for this reason, and I for one will not continue to do so after this post.

IMO people that refuse to accept cold hard facts and regularly reject reality and substitute their own as a method of avoiding said facts need to permanently stay in their alternate reality where carpenters walk on water, Dragons fill the skies, and jumping of the Empire State Building will not kill you. We have no tangible use for them in this universe, but there is probably a parallel one which more accurately reflects their worldviews and is looking for members.

Edited by Zerberus, 16 June 2013 - 02:06 AM.