43 replies to this topic

[InRev]

Soy, on 17 June 2013 - 07:47 PM, said:

in life and generally everything, the smallest things aren't necessarily the fastest things

[Aaron45]

Can a Pgi Dev give us a response wether they are giving the spider and the commando its original speed back?

Edited by Legolaas, 18 June 2013 - 02:24 AM.

[Aaron45]

Still no short feedback from pgi?

[Gaan Cathal]

You do realise that the Commando will still be slower than the Jenner when the 150kph speed cap is lifted, right? (and yes, Spider will be faster).

As for word from PGI, they put back the Flea because they're not implementing MASC until they're ready to remove the cap. So when they announce the Flea, you'll know it's coming. Currently it's still work in progress. Being as this is a coding issue in the Cryengine guts, it won't be possible for them to give an accurate ETA.

[Aaron45]

Gaan Cathal, on 18 June 2013 - 10:23 PM, said:

You do realise that the Commando will still be slower than the Jenner when the 150kph speed cap is lifted, right? (and yes, Spider will be faster).

As for word from PGI, they put back the Flea because they're not implementing MASC until they're ready to remove the cap. So when they announce the Flea, you'll know it's coming. Currently it's still work in progress. Being as this is a coding issue in the Cryengine guts, it won't be possible for them to give an accurate ETA.

As the People before you meantioned jenners and ravens - especially their powerful variants -should be slower than 150kph

Iam glad you told us soo specific stuff we didnt know.lol

We all know that there are problems with the hit registartion- especially with lighter mechs. I just want to know if pgi plans to give the spider for example its speed back when all the problems are fixed.

Making a lighter mech (spider commando)faster than heavier light mechs means ballancing it if they dont wanna change the hole hardpoints on those mechs

[Mynder]

So how'd you guys make mechs like the locust or commando more viable?

They don't have the armor, they don't have the tonnage for more weaponry/heat sinks, they don't have more speed, and they're only marginally smaller.

[PanzerMagier]

Mynder, on 01 July 2013 - 03:20 AM, said:

So how'd you guys make mechs like the locust or commando more viable?

They don't have the armor, they don't have the tonnage for more weaponry/heat sinks, they don't have more speed, and they're only marginally smaller.

I assume that tonnage limits in CW will make them matter. You just need a light or 2 for scouting. If they can weigh 20 tons instead of 30, You might able to trade an awesome in for an atlas. Or something like that.

[Mynder]

Still sucks to be the commando/locust pilot in that situation.

They could be buffed with tweaks like making missile lock-on times dependant on mass (smaller sensor signature for light mechs), although that's not going to help a locust suddenly staring a jenner in the face.

Not sure about how to make them viable in a way that's not purely "we only have 20 tons left over, so we HAVE to take a locust".

[MustrumRidcully]

The Commando in the table top has a lower speed than the Jenner, too. The Commando is not designed for speed or scouting, but as a striker.

In the table top, this kinda works. In MW:O... less so. The lower weight, lower armor, and low speed are all drawbacks that get compensated for approximately nothing (you might cite a smaller body than the Jenner as an advantage).

[stjobe]

TheFlyingScotsman, on 17 June 2013 - 09:48 AM, said:

PGI currently has an aritifical cap on speeds due to how speed affects performance. Technically, all the lights should have different topspeeds, but are forced to cap around 150kmh instead. Between that fact and streaks, it makes it very difficult to condone choosing one of more than four prime light chassis variants.

JR7-D, RVN-3L, SDR-5D and CMD-2D

Jenner: Doesn't have any gimp variants, they're all good. Some are great, like the -D and -F
Raven: 3L is way better than any other, and rivalling the Jenner for top spot of the lights. 2X and 4X are gimp.
Spider: 5D is the only viable variant, the 5V and 5K are gimp, with the 5K being the worst variant in the whole game.
Commando: 2D is heads and shoulders above the other variants due to Streaks+ECM. The other variants are about equally good/bad.

As for speed, it would benefit the Spider the most, and the Commando not at all, unless they re-wrote the max engine rules.

[Mynder]

MustrumRidcully, on 01 July 2013 - 03:47 AM, said:

The Commando in the table top has a lower speed than the Jenner, too. The Commando is not designed for speed or scouting, but as a striker.

In the table top, this kinda works. In MW:O... less so. The lower weight, lower armor, and low speed are all drawbacks that get compensated for approximately nothing (you might cite a smaller body than the Jenner as an advantage).

Precisely the point of my argument.

[Aaron45]

MustrumRidcully, on 01 July 2013 - 03:47 AM, said:

The Commando in the table top has a lower speed than the Jenner, too. The Commando is not designed for speed or scouting, but as a striker.

In the table top, this kinda works. In MW:O... less so. The lower weight, lower armor, and low speed are all drawbacks that get compensated for approximately nothing (you might cite a smaller body than the Jenner as an advantage).

I really donmt care about table top as its even not a realtime play game. Its a dice game. Fact is that the really light mechs need an advantage over the heavier light mechs.

If they dont want to make them faster (they could if they would like) then give them other advantages over the heavier lights

[Zyllos]

MustrumRidcully, on 01 July 2013 - 03:47 AM, said:

The Commando in the table top has a lower speed than the Jenner, too. The Commando is not designed for speed or scouting, but as a striker.

In the table top, this kinda works. In MW:O... less so. The lower weight, lower armor, and low speed are all drawbacks that get compensated for approximately nothing (you might cite a smaller body than the Jenner as an advantage).

This, 100%.

The Commando is suppose to be a high damage package in a 25t mech. The whole reason to be 25t is that you can utilize little of your tonnage and be granted a good speed of 97kph while bringing out DPS much higher than your average mech.

The problem with MWO is that damage is all concentrated (even if your aiming is bad, all the damage is happening to a single point in space) unless your using missiles. And all that concentrated damage really hurts Striker mechs because if your target can put out a lot of damage in a single shot onto a single specific area, there is no point is attempting to sacrfice armor for weaponry.

[General Taskeen]

It'd be cool if full engine customization was left to a Solaris mode, otherwise every custom Light is just the same -> Gotta Go Fast™

Legolaas, on 01 July 2013 - 06:30 AM, said:

I really donmt care about table top as its even not a realtime play game. Its a dice game.

Did you know MWO is also a dice game? Click the 'Launch' Button and you're Rolling 'Em.

If you don't care about TT, then you don't care also that your AC/20 weighs 14 tons and takes 10 crits? The fact is "BT is dice rolling" is not a good argument.

Edited by General Taskeen, 01 July 2013 - 06:40 AM.

[Zyllos]

Legolaas, on 01 July 2013 - 06:30 AM, said:

I really donmt care about table top as its even not a realtime play game. Its a dice game. Fact is that the really light mechs need an advantage over the heavier light mechs. If they dont want to make them faster (they could if they would like) then give them other advantages over the heavier lights

One advantage should be that they in fact weigh 25t. A tonnage limit will help this greatly.

I forsee the DropShip mode, with it's respawning mechanic, enforcing a tonnage limit by limiting the number or respawns with weight. Thus, that 25t Commando will be useful in rounding out that 75t Orion, leaving 100t left with 2 mech bays open.

[stjobe]

Zyllos, on 01 July 2013 - 06:33 AM, said:

This, 100%.

The Commando is suppose to be a high damage package in a 25t mech. The whole reason to be 25t is that you can utilize little of your tonnage and be granted a good speed of 97kph while bringing out DPS much higher than your average mech.

The problem with MWO is that damage is all concentrated (even if your aiming is bad, all the damage is happening to a single point in space) unless your using missiles. And all that concentrated damage really hurts Striker mechs because if your target can put out a lot of damage in a single shot onto a single specific area, there is no point is attempting to sacrfice armor for weaponry.

Well, in the case of the Commando, it's also the fact that SRMs are currently... underwhelming.

Before the damage nerf, a SRM-6 did 15 damage. Spread damage, sure, but still 15 damage. Now it does 9.

A typical Commando loadout could be e.g. 2xML+SRM6 (5+5+15 = 25 damage) or 1xML+3xSRM4 (5+10+10+10 = 35 damage). Those loadouts now do 19 and 23 damage respectively.

If we could get PGI to buff the SRM to at least 2 damage per missile, those loadouts would be at 22 and 29 damage.

[Aaron45]

General Taskeen, on 01 July 2013 - 06:37 AM, said:

It'd be cool if full engine customization was left to a Solaris mode, otherwise every custom Light is just the same -> Gotta Go Fast™



Did you know MWO is also a dice game? Click the 'Launch' Button and you're Rolling 'Em.

If you don't care about TT, then you don't care also that your AC/20 weighs 14 tons and takes 10 crits? The fact is "BT is dice rolling" is not a good argument.

Dude its a diferent game mechanic, we play MWo in real time. Theres no dice and no by chance hit. Its a different game.

I only care about MWo not about a game which is by far related with mwo. I want mwo to be balanced. Also PGi dont have to stick to TT Rules and they replied it several times at several threads that they wanna create their own game without striktly folloing any rule or to be compared with TT.

Just Make sure that the Spider Commando and the Locust wont be a Mechbay "Queen". I Love to play all the mechs- playing jenner all the time is annoying and lame but at the same time i dont want to have a major disadvantage.

Wake up. We dont live in the 70´s. TT is a dice game without a computer. Its in the very past. MWO is a Real time Computer game.

Edited by Legolaas, 01 July 2013 - 06:52 AM.

[Corvus Antaka]

yeah commando and 20 tonners NEED more speed to justify their light wieght. hopefully once the netcode is sorted.

[stjobe]

Legolaas, on 01 July 2013 - 06:46 AM, said:

Wake up. We dont live in the 70´s. TT is a dice game without a computer. Its in the very past. MWO is a Real time Computer game.

Without at least a grounding in BattleTech lore and TT rules, MWO is just stompy robots. Adherence to the TT rules and general BattleTech lore is what makes this a MechWarrior game and not just another robot game.

If it becomes just another robot game, it will also lose its (generally middle-aged and quite comfortable economy-wise) core audience.

What would you rather stake your livelihood on: Fickle teenage gamers that don't care one iota about the game universe, or middle-aged BattleTech geeks with disposable income that have been faithful to a game universe for almost 30 years?

That said, I personally am more worried about MWO keeping to the spirit of the BattleTech rules than the letter. I want a game that feels like BattleTech, not necessarily one that implements the rules to the umpteenth decimal point.

[Goldhawk]

Spider and Commando supposed to be fast.

Raven: Apparently an electronics package with paper-thin armor. Oh wait, in MWO it's a skirmisher with Streaks. Cut that speed down and thin the armor. It's not supposed to be a light hunter.

Jenner: IS supposed to be fast and a light hunter. Leave it as it is.

Spiders and Commandos are struggling after the Raven got the 3L.