29 replies to this topic

[Stuii OCAU]

Syrkres, on 19 June 2013 - 12:23 PM, said:

So you want to form up an 8 man, and when there are few 8 man teams, you want to crush pugs...?

Cudos to you.

No - to be matched against pugs with a high enough ELO that it is an even match accounting for pug vs 8man using ELO.
For instance, going against 2 4man teams with an ELO handicap (in whichever direction is appropriate)

See, when we try to play in aus as an 8man - we simply can't get a game...

Syrkres, on 19 June 2013 - 12:27 PM, said:

Getting people into 8 mans is easy, form an 8 man group and invite some people....

We do it all the time. We have lots of new players, last night we had a player who had only been playing for 3 days (though most of the rest of us had been playing a while).

Easy to do.

it does NOT mean go out and get yourself 8 new players.

But 5-7 players should be easily able to carry 1-3 new players.

Problem is - in Australia evening, there are no 8 mans to drop against:

Quote

Mechwazza team (MechWarrior® Online™)


Jun 13 08:35 (PDT)
Hello [redacted yo],
After further investigation on the Match Making we have not found any problem with the match making.
Unfortunately your usual time frame when playing the game is usually early in the Morning or the afternoon for most players and we think there aren't many other 8-group man starting at the same time.
Regards,
mechwazza team
GameMaster
MechWarrior® Online™

from http://mwomercs.com/...-high-elo-pugs/

Edited by Stuii OCAU, 20 June 2013 - 02:35 AM.

[Salacious Sparrow]

I'm seeing a fair amount of missing the point. The issue here is that this match system is pretty ****** as is. I don't know about you guys, but being a regular social gamer i just so happen to have MORE than three friends i regularly enjoy gaming with. What happens is when we're deciding what to play, MWO just gets tossed, because we're not about to just leave one of us out in the cold like a bunch of twats.

The thing is that most of us are evening gamer, quite a few of the chaps I play with have **** that needs doing during the day, jobs, family, that sort of important stuff you can't push aside for the sake of an 8 man drop. For anyone playing in australia, it's not as simple as "gather 8 people" and you get an 8 man. It's much more to the tune of "gather 8 people, wait 45 mins, one goes to sleep and spend another 20 replacing him and anyone else who gave up during that wait, try again, 45 mins pass, give up". I don't know about you guys, but it's a pretty big downgrade from the old system where every time we had anyone wanting to play there was a game and room for everyone who wanted in.

If you still think we want to stomp pubs, go outside and avoid the computer for the day, you're just being silly and you should be ashamed. YES, people will stomp pubs, but what choice do we have? When i was a pub, I kicked *** in my fatlas because it was the only mech i could possibly sustain half a team of fire in, and i did that well. I **** you not, i played this for atleast 6 months, never once found any team willing to actually do as you say, not to mention goo ******* luck typing everything and hoping everyones got the time to read and do what you asked. get that idea out of your head, it's utterly ridiculous. How'd i fix this issue? i joined a clan, got Teamspeak and worked with them as a team.

Bottom line, we used to be able to enjoy this game as a clan, now we get to enjoy it in groups of four, usually leaving one to two people out in the cold because we need to focus to make up for the 4 silent useless bloody targets on the other half of the team. As for stomping pubs, half the time we'd come up against other mostly full teams. Wanna know why? because they could keep that group going all damn night, and if one left, no biggie, they'd just invite a pub...or try, and it was so much simpler that more people would put in the effort to do, cause it was fun and easy and so it was always there to fight.

I'm sorry, but if you think it's a simple job to get an 8 man going down under, or you think we're just a bunch of ******** whining cause we can't stomp little noobs, you should feel bad for missing the entire point.

[Roland]

Vassago Rain, on 19 June 2013 - 11:48 AM, said:

No.

Play in 8 manz if you want to compete. The ghetto is not a farming ground.

See, I'm looking at it differently.

I want to compete with the 8 mans, but can ONLY play in those games when we have exactly 8 people.. When we have 5-7, we get screwed. We can't play together, and can only play in games where there are a bunch of random pugs.

If you just combined the queues, then there ceases to be a way for folks to voluntarily pug-stomp. They can no longer intentionally avoid playing against competitive teams, despite they themselves being in a team. It makes it such that if you want to play as a team, then you are gonna be forced to potentially go up against the best teams out there, if your Elo matches theirs.

Additionally, it'll give the 8 man teams more competition, so they can play more easily.

And it'll enable folks with any number of players to play together.


If you want, you can make a separate queue for ONLY ungrouped players, which is a far more sensible breakdown of the player base. It will guarantee that both teams have essentially the same advantages in terms of communication.

The only folks who MAY be hurt by this, would be players who routinely play in groups of 4, but don't want to have to go up against teams who make be even more organized than they are. But I say screw those folks, because it'll basically just be putting them into a situation that they currently put solo random players into.

As part of a group that often has more than 4 but less than 8 guys around, I would welcome the change that would match us up against full 8 man teams. I'm not gonna cry and run home just from losing in such a situation. It's not like we're playing for real money or something.

[canned wolf]

Here is what I would add to 8 mans to make them better.

Let whoever wants to drop into an eight man. There are two of you? great. A team of four? Five? six? whatever. Just give people the option. Team play is important and should be encouraged, make eight mans like other games hard core modes. Use elo to fill out the gaps and go.

Separately I would also like to see a team only mode. This would be a mode where whatever your group drops with is what you get. You decide to drop with two Jenners and the other team is rolling six Stalkers? Whatever.

[Mechteric]

canned wolf, on 21 June 2013 - 07:19 AM, said:

Separately I would also like to see a team only mode. This would be a mode where whatever your group drops with is what you get. You decide to drop with two Jenners and the other team is rolling six Stalkers? Whatever.

The thing is that is already likely a huge part of the reason 8-mans have scattered. If our team goes 2-2-2-2 and constantly runs up against 6-0-0-2's we either ton up or quit.

[Roland]

That's yet another reason why I think just getting rid of the 8 man queue will solve a ton of problems.

If 8 man teams are matched similarly to the rest of games, then you'll be able to play with 8 folks and NOT go up against 8 assault mechs every game.

[canned wolf]

You guys have to start playing the game that PGI has made rather than the game you've invented in your head. A 2v2v2v2 should crush 6v0v0v2 every time. Kill the lights, then ignore the assaults and go cap points. Heavies and mediums aren't weak classes, people just use them poorly on a regular basis.

A squad of assaults is worthless without support, if they stay together so they can support each other, let em, it means you win on points. If they split up, use your superior speed to gang up on them. They'll be too slow to get support before you tear them apart.

I played the game plenty before separate 8 mans were introduced. They were put in for a good reason.

[Inkarnus]

Eldragon, on 19 June 2013 - 05:55 AM, said:

Sarcastic Comment: If only there was some kind of rating system that based a player's skill on their Win/Loss ratio, and the game matched players of similar skill together.

Win/loss ratio bs
losses cuz the enemy got 3 ppc stalker more than you
or they have far more assaults than you
ELO is ****** up for good
sick of playing with tards that
change my gameplay
and alot of the factor of
FUN to not FUN

[anglomanii]

canned wolf, on 21 June 2013 - 02:33 PM, said:

You guys have to start playing the game that PGI has made rather than the game you've invented in your head. A 2v2v2v2 should crush 6v0v0v2 every time. Kill the lights, then ignore the assaults and go cap points. Heavies and mediums aren't weak classes, people just use them poorly on a regular basis.

A squad of assaults is worthless without support, if they stay together so they can support each other, let em, it means you win on points. If they split up, use your superior speed to gang up on them. They'll be too slow to get support before you tear them apart.

I played the game plenty before separate 8 mans were introduced. They were put in for a good reason.

I've been playing this game for a while aswell, I unfortunately have to disagree on several of your points, to start with the game we were promised did not include a separate pool of 8 mans, we where promised an open structure, that was the game they made. But due to anecdotal evidence based on a incomplete game, with incomplete structures in place and a player base still learning the ropes, a hotfix if you will was called for. now it may be that at the time it was actually called for, 12 months on I think things are developing else-wise, and serious review needs to be made. ELO is in play ( though I am somewhat sceptical to its abilities) and should work across the board, separate pools of players however slew this and enable a less than optimal performance in it's match making results, it is also rather easy to fool the system in order to obtain advantage, though this is not 100% guaranteed.

As too the mention of assault heavy team, they seem to do very well indeed, the current meta game in play means in 4man or 8man, a section of assaults with PPC's can dominate the battle space, control the flow of battle and determine the end result, speed needs to be coordinated, raw fire power does not, that being said, the introduction of 8mans back into the common player base could from what I can theorise, rebalance the extraordinary prevalence of assault and heavy mechs in 4man matches.

there is much to still be done on this subject, it is not perfect by any account, and does need to be looked at in a holistic manner, team matching, make up and structures play as important a role as do the Maps and game modes which also need to be looked at.

Edited by anglomanii, 22 June 2013 - 06:51 PM.

[Roland]

We actually had more than 4 folks online at the same time, for the first time in a while.

The limitation of only being able to drop with 4 players drove some of the folks away, again. So, congrats on continuing to have a system which is actively driving players away from your game, PGI.