15 replies to this topic

[MoonUnitBeta]

Yo. A friend asked me, "It'd be so cool if we could see the battlegrid on our tablets like that artemis controller"

So then I thought.... there must be a way. There must be a serious technical complex and convoluted way about getting that grid on your tablet. iPad, Blackberry playbook. Doesn't matter. Trying to keep it basic by the way. I think it'd be a major achievement to atleast get the battlegrid to show up on the tablet. Having any kind of interaction (for team or lance commanders) would probably be possible, but further down the road... by a lot.
But. The very first step that needs to be done is research. Which brings me to my question...

Does anyone know of any programs that could stream... over bluetooth?

So yes. Programs. Streaming programs. Apps. Bluetooth. Cryengine. Third-party programs. Anything. We need resources. Let's get wild, take our tops off, and make this a community project.

I presume that the battlegrid needs to be open somewhere, and maybe it needs to be rendered in another screen, and then almost screen captured to the tablet.

Anywho. Just exploring the possibilities. So if anyone knows....


P.S. No idea where to put this..

[Sephlock]

Good idea. Won't happen.

Oh, and the "Suggestions" forum would be a good bet .

[Lavi]

Indeed, suggestion forum should be the place to put this thread.

I don't know if CryEngine allows for some LUA programming.
But if it does minimap and some other data (heat, ammo, damage received) should be accesible via LUA scripting

[Roughneck45]

I would LOVE to be able to take command in game and use an ipad for the map and to issue orders on.

Would be SO sweet.

Pipe dream though , at least for the near future.

[Adridos]

Lavi, on 18 June 2013 - 06:24 AM, said:

I don't know if CryEngine allows for some LUA programming. But if it does minimap and some other data (heat, ammo, damage received) should be accesible via LUA scripting

Cry Engine 3 itself is entirely C++ based, however, the HUD is done by Scaleform according to the HUD bug report and Scaleform can use LUA, so it should be possible.

[Bilbo]

The artemis controller has a screen for the minimap, if it's still being developed. I can't imagine the would design it with one if it wasn't possible.

[hammerreborn]

Bilbo, on 18 June 2013 - 06:57 AM, said:

The artemis controller has a screen for the minimap, if it's still being developed. I can't imagine the would design it with one if it wasn't possible.

A controller is a fairly different beast than a tablet though, I would assume.

I would totally love to see this though and think it's a brilliant idea (command console would make sense, my wife could be the commander! After all, she likes shiny objects and telling people what to do). But I think the technical limitations and delay in streaming would be insurmountable.

[Sephlock]

[Syllogy]

It's a cool idea, but it would give some players an advantage over others, so I don't see it going very far.

[Zerberus]

Syllogy, on 18 June 2013 - 07:38 AM, said:

It's a cool idea, but it would give some players an advantage over others, so I don't see it going very far.

Agreed. THe P2W qq would be immense, and not completely unfounded, because not everybody wants or needs a tablet, nor can everybody afford them. I personally hate them with a passion, but I have my own reasons for that.

Remember when the iPad was first released? One of the most popular memes was



And it still carries significant weight in today`s market.

YOu would not be "forced" to buy one, but you would be strongly coerced to purchase one (or a second screen, assuming that`s a viable workaround), simply to have the same sutiational awareness as others that already own one.

This is essentially the exact same discussion as "3pv offers more situational awareness and needs to die now", just in a different dress and about a different feature. Therefore almost anybody opposed to 3pv should be equally as opposed to this by way of their own reasoning behind opposing 3pv, the primary one being "It offers more situational awareness that others using 1PV do not have".

The Razr Artemis controller is AFAIK a different story, because you do not have the minimap AND battlegrid simultaneously. From what I gathered from teh little biit of design intentions that were puublished, it would only show the minimap, and NOT show the minimap when the battlegrid was open...

That all said, even if they were gree and everybody owned one, there is another important technical reason it will probably not happen: PGI is already trying to MINIMIZE the amount of data that has to be sent in either directionw, both for cost reasons and for efficiency /performance reasons. If everyone had one, this would essentially double the existing traffic both ways, because the positioning data is the largest portion of that and it is now being requested by what essentially amounts to 2 clients per player.

Edited by Zerberus, 18 June 2013 - 08:07 AM.

[Bilbo]

Zerberus, on 18 June 2013 - 07:57 AM, said:

That all said, even if they were gree and everybody owned one, there is another important technical reason it will probably not happen: PGI is already trying to MINIMIZE the amount of data that has to be sent in either directionw, both for cost reasons and for efficiency /performance reasons. If everyone had one, this would essentially double the existing traffic both ways, because the positioning data is the largest portion of that and it is now being requested by what essentially amounts to 2 clients per player.

The data need only be sent once. The client can then decide what needs to be done with it. No extra network traffic required, same data being sent to two places at once by the client. Also, calling a game pay to win because someone might be able to use a second display is a little far fetched.

[Zerberus]

Bilbo, on 18 June 2013 - 12:37 PM, said:

The data need only be sent once. The client can then decide what needs to be done with it. No extra network traffic required, same data being sent to two places at once by the client. Also, calling a game pay to win because someone might be able to use a second display is a little far fetched.

Yes.  But It`s not about "might" when your`re essentially forced to to have the same situational awareness as people that have 2 displasy. In that case it becomes "must" to be competitive.

I`m one of the last people to call an idea P2W, and I didn`t say this necessarily is.  I play on a decent rig with a 42" monitor, so I know what advantage better hardware can often provide in and of itself, and don`t necessarily consider that P2W.  I said the QQ about it would be glorious, and not completely invalid, becasue a piece of hardware that is not "standard" and that many people do not own will be perceived as "necessary" by many, and those that cannot afford it will be at a tactical disadvantage vs. those that have it.

And if your iPad /tablet (which brings up the next issue, tablet is not = tablet, and "splicing" a tablet in is a completely different ballgame to simply adding a second display on the same GFX card, but I digress) is not networked to your pc and getting it`s data from there, but getting it from the MWO server, it is in fact effectively a second client with respect to the largest part of the traffic, the positioning data.  It`s all a question of technical implementation.

I like the idea from a UI perspective, lends a "modern" feel to teh map interface so to speak... But I do not think it is viable as if implemented it will eventually become more or less a requirement for anybody that doesn`t want to lose all the time.

Edited by Zerberus, 18 June 2013 - 01:03 PM.

[Victor Morson]

Sephlock, on 18 June 2013 - 06:00 AM, said:

Good idea. Won't happen.

Getting it onto a second monitor might happen, with a user mod.

[MoonUnitBeta]

Victor Morson, on 18 June 2013 - 12:59 PM, said:

Getting it onto a second monitor might happen, with a user mod.

It could suffice if that's possible. You would be able to stream that monitor on twitch.tv, and then connect to twitch.tv with your tablet and go full screen.

Edited by MoonUnitBeta, 19 June 2013 - 04:17 PM.

[MoonUnitBeta]

Zerberus, on 18 June 2013 - 12:51 PM, said:

Yes. But It`s not about "might" when your`re essentially forced to to have the same situational awareness as people that have 2 displasy. In that case it becomes "must" to be competitive.

I`m one of the last people to call an idea P2W, and I didn`t say this necessarily is. I play on a decent rig with a 42" monitor, so I know what advantage better hardware can often provide in and of itself, and don`t necessarily consider that P2W. I said the QQ about it would be glorious, and not completely invalid, becasue a piece of hardware that is not "standard" and that many people do not own will be perceived as "necessary" by many, and those that cannot afford it will be at a tactical disadvantage vs. those that have it.

And if your iPad /tablet (which brings up the next issue, tablet is not = tablet, and "splicing" a tablet in is a completely different ballgame to simply adding a second display on the same GFX card, but I digress) is not networked to your pc and getting it`s data from there, but getting it from the MWO server, it is in fact effectively a second client with respect to the largest part of the traffic, the positioning data. It`s all a question of technical implementation.

I like the idea from a UI perspective, lends a "modern" feel to teh map interface so to speak... But I do not think it is viable as if implemented it will eventually become more or less a requirement for anybody that doesn`t want to lose all the time.

So what about the Artemis regarding the giant screen in the middle? You could have that screen cycle ammo, heat sinks, or constantly show the battle grid. This would be a buyable product from PGI/Razer - What makes turning your tablet into a battlegrid monitor so wrong? It's nothing that players already can't press B for.

Edited by MoonUnitBeta, 19 June 2013 - 04:21 PM.

[Zerberus]

MoonUnitBeta, on 19 June 2013 - 04:21 PM, said:

So what about the Artemis regarding the giant screen in the middle? You could have that screen cycle ammo, heat sinks, or constantly show the battle grid. This would be a buyable product from PGI/Razer - What makes turning your tablet into a battlegrid monitor so wrong? It's nothing that players already can't press B for.

As previously stated, AFAIK the Artemis is (will be) ONLY capable of displaying the minimap, and one of the things I heard through the grapevine was that it would STOP doing so when the battlegrid was opened. However, none of that matters, because any and all arguments referencing said system are moot until it is actually more than a concept-study /single prototype.

As it currently stands, if you press b, you lose ALL other displays and are provided only with the battlegrid. No weapons /ammo data, no HS data, no paperdoll, no minimap, and you keep walking however your last inputs were. Therefore currently ANY way to get additional information displayed simulataneously to the BG is, factually, a tactical advantage with the current status quo. Even if it`s semi-useless information like the number of heatsinks functioning and at what efficiency, much moreso if it is more pertinent data such as the paperdoll or weapons /ammo loadout, or the minimap, or eveb teh full hud, allowing aou , with 2 screens to both manipulate teh BG AND fly wour mech simultaneously, which someonw eith 1 screen simply can not. That is potentially a HUGE advantage.

As soon as it requires additional hardware, it also becomes a tactical advantage that somebody has to PAY real money MONEY to be able to access in a similarly optimized fashon.

Last I checked, paying money for an obmious ingame advantage was how most players define Pay to Win....hence the qq would be massive, especially among the people the can`t afford /dont want to buy additional hardware. We have people qqiing every so often that a gaming mouse is OP, I don`t even want to think of what they`ll say about expensive hardware that allows you to command the battlefield and pilot your mech simultaneously.....

If MWO ONLYworked in conjunction with the Artemis and not with a traditional HOTAS FLCS or a Keyboard and Mouse setup, it would be an entirely differen discussion and my view would reflect that.

Edited by Zerberus, 20 June 2013 - 06:56 AM.