50 replies to this topic

[Cybermech]

Davoke, on 20 June 2013 - 05:22 AM, said:

I see so many PPC boats I want to cry.

Oh wait, the last 10 matches I've played have had how many?

Oh, none. The game is working right now, boating is down, and the worst I've seen was a laughable 8 MPLas Awesome. Seriously, I must be missing out on all this boating and QQing going on, or people are just getting unlucky. I get killed by LRM's paired up with AC/LLas support mechs way more often than anything else.(which in turn, is a legitimate strategy)

what game have you been playing?

hit detection is really bad atm so ppc's have one of the best chances are registering a hit

[theta123]

BootHands, on 20 June 2013 - 05:05 AM, said:

PPCs and boating are not a problem.....

bullocks
I have various jagermech builds. A firebrand 2LL 2AC5 and 4 SL. One DD with Dual AC/5 and Dual AC/2. One S model with 4xAC2 and one A with 2 AC2, 4 LRM5 and 2 ML. But whats the FREAKING use of making such builds when a 4 PPC boat comes and goes BAM. U are ded, not big surprise.

Not to mention the AC40 ********... I hated gausscats in the beginning of this game..and i tought they were exctinct but even they are starting to re-emerge

If you build a mech like it was in Mechwarrior, you will lose in MWO by a boat..Always

[giganova]

Boating is not the issue; convergence, heat, tonnage, pricing, customization are also not the issues. Constant alpha-striking, on the other hand? There may be an issue there. I must have played at least 20 matches last night and I only distinctly remember 3 Stalker PPC boats...

I'm sorry, guess I'm just in the minority here, but I also have not seen that many PPC boats, certainly not to the extent at which they were about 2 months ago. Perhaps it's an ELO thing? I have no way of testing that, however.

Also, a K2 with 2 PPCs does not a boat make. Same with dual Gauss. I've noticed a trend while dropping with my buddies that whenever they get destroyed by weaponry other than PPC/Gauss, they're fine with it, but the MOMENT they see a PPC or Gauss on the list of weapons that were used to core them, they kind of flip out, and unnecessarily so. I think these weapons have received an unfair stigma from the community.

[Orzorn]

I agree with the first two points. Increase the PPC heat by one or two points maybe, and then make 120% heat or so damage you.

[CancR]

Duck Butter, on 20 June 2013 - 12:38 AM, said:

I understand that many other have presented their own complicated pet ideas on how to fix this aspect of the game (PGI included) but can we all agree that the problem an be addressed balance-wise with a scalpel instead of a butcher knife?

I don't want arbitrary numbers assigned to each weapon for specific heat penalties, I don't want a learn a new targeting computer system added as an additional resource to manage and I don't want them to completely change the way how heat works.

Based on good and practical solutions suggested by others I think the following would work without too much work on the part of the developers and not overly confuse players:

1: Increase PPC heat by a slight margin to make them less heat-efficient than other energy weapon alternatives

2: Mech takes damage upon overheating above 125%

3: When a mech shuts down, all weapons are placed on cooldown upon powering up, decreasing DPS by increasing downtime of weapons due to reckless use

4: Slightly decrease the projectile speed of the PPC for the purpose of preventing players from alpha striking combined with gauss

I feel this would fix 99% of the boating problems and not take too much effort to accomplish both on the part of the devs and the players.

No, no, no, and no.

PGI already had a perfectly fine way to stop boating and they took it out because they want to hold player's hand. It was R&R and death by 3 overheat shutdowns, and it was beautiful.

[Panzerkampfwagen IV]

The increase/decrease in projo speeds I think effectively addresses the current convergence issue.
Each weapon already has a significant penalty if boated by itself:

ppc: no short range damage ability
gauss: weapon is fragile and takes up many slots, ammo limitation
erppc: extreme heat (needs to be higher than it is currently imo)

The problem is when the weapons are mixed and matched to circumvent their individual shortcomings.
By varying the speeds of each individual weapon type more, the users would then be at a significant disadvantage in that only bad players who are caught standing still should get hit by a mixed alpha at say 500 km.

Edited by Duck Butter, 20 June 2013 - 09:41 AM.

[p8ragon]

CancR, on 20 June 2013 - 09:18 AM, said:

No, no, no, and no.

PGI already had a perfectly fine way to stop boating and they took it out because they want to hold player's hand. It was R&R and death by 3 overheat shutdowns, and it was beautiful.

And how do you think brand new players will feel when they're LOSING cbills after each match? Will they stick around to improve, or spend money?

[Davoke]

IDK if you guys knew this, but if you actually take the time to hide behind cover and RUSH PPC boats, they can't shoot you if you facehug.

Like seriously, rushing is the way to go. I rush in my LRM Atlas all the time and everyone follows me to victory.

[CancR]

p8ragon, on 20 June 2013 - 09:41 AM, said:

And how do you think brand new players will feel when they're LOSING cbills after each match? Will they stick around to improve, or spend money?

Newbs wont be losing money when they don't have anything expensive to repair till they really earn the money to get it to buy it, at which time they should be experienced enough to earn money to support, unless they are dumb and try to cash in a mc mech for BV.

Alot of people would like to see a BV limit system, which could be balanced based on creating tiers on around how many skills you have unlocked, and capping BV based on your tier. A much better way to do matchmacker (hint hint)

[Tombstoner]

randomly altering ppc, ac, gauss rounds would work but its way to "random". its interfering with what game play exists for pin point click/boom. An accuracy indicator is not hard to pick up or understand.

adding a weapon cool down...after shut down is a bit to arbitrary for me. all players have a choice to fire them right after shut down. you want to take that away. the % over the heat cap and boom was the only deterrent for that and i liked it.... it added some real tension. the heat scales need to be expanded so i can see how far over the shutdown limit i am. it should also show you the % chance to melt down and let players decide how much to press your luck.

Not much of a fan of the rest changes Change heat and you get the same outcome with a different weapon system....change it again and it becomes circular. the game needs and additional degree of freedom to tweak. That means more game mechanics.

[Team Leader]

Instead of all the weapons having to go to cool down on a shutdown why not just the one that brought you over the limit?

[Major Derps]

Drop speed to 1500, increase heat (for 1 more heat than an LL, I have a direct fire weapon that does more damage at greater range. WTF to that), and increase slot penalty; 3 slots for a ppc is a joke.

[malibu43]

CancR, on 20 June 2013 - 09:18 AM, said:

No, no, no, and no. PGI already had a perfectly fine way to stop boating and they took it out because they want to hold player's hand. It was R&R and death by 3 overheat shutdowns, and it was beautiful.

Yes. Let's replace boating with Pay 2 Win.

[Major Derps]

Team Leader, on 20 June 2013 - 11:54 AM, said:

Instead of all the weapons having to go to cool down on a shutdown why not just the one that brought you over the limit?

Because (I'll be harsh here) the noobs running these high alpha boats, have no concept of heat management, and are firing til they over heat, shutting down, and firing immediately upon start up. Now this makes them an easy target, yes, but the fact of the matter is that they are succeeding with stupidity.

[Dead one]

real MEN use lasers

[Training Instructor]

Exact convergence from weapons in fixed locations is the problem. MWO and many fans defend it.

[CancR]

malibu43, on 20 June 2013 - 02:32 PM, said:

Yes. Let's replace boating with Pay 2 Win.

Maybe if you are really, really, really bad.

[Tombstoner]

Training Instructor, on 20 June 2013 - 03:27 PM, said:

Exact convergence from weapons in fixed locations is the problem. MWO and many fans defend it.

In PGI's defence they did have the convergance mechanic very early on.... so they did recognise the need for some damage distrabution simulating not replicating TT rules. The design i think looked fubar and it was disabled. They left a hole in the PRS. It fundimantaly altered the game. 1.5 years later its still there and high damage alphas rule. the solution PGI has put forth i hope works, but i expect it to just be combined with more weapons of diferant types. thats the work around and why when the clans arrive the solution is short lived.

People defend pin point hits because its what they are used to... to them there is notihing wrong. i think this is because they play lots of FPS where its normal for people to die in 60 seconds and respawn.

I paid my $120 for a founders and i have definitly goten my moneys worth and then some. i just can't bring myself to spend anymore with pin point high damage alphas.

Edited by Tombstoner, 20 June 2013 - 04:45 PM.

[Voivode]

PPC / ERPPC back to original 10/ 15 heat. Not even sure why they changed it. Also, if you shut down while boating ppcs, let the heat deal damage to the PPCs so you can literally disarm yourself by alpha striking all the time

[Purlana]

Weapons should take DMG when you overheat. Overheat too much = no more weapons.