27 replies to this topic

[Allendale Kao]

Now, before you ask what's this doing in Gameplay Balance, think about it. The players choose builds and 'mechs, therefore their psychology affects what they use and how. This creates balance problems which I shall explain.

Why do PUG matches have so many Assaults and Heavies who play like crap?

It's mostly because lots of new players think that bigger is better. Why? Because someone decided to boat high alpha weapons and one hit kill a new player. This makes them afraid, and soon they discover that they can live longer and using Assaults and Heavies. This coupled with the fact that most new players can't exactly understand english and don't have proper computers make them unable to learn from experience properly and forever play Assaults and Heavies and suck at it.

These players usually abandon the team and start taking cover at all sorts of odd positions and only occasionally pop out to miss and tickle enemies.

Start>Use Light or Medium 'mech>Get Alpha'd and die>Use Heavy or Assault>Survive more than one Alpha>Hurr Durr IT'S THE ONLY WAY TO PLAY THIS GAME.

Above is the simplistic explanation. There are plenty of new players in this game. When all of them use Assaults/Heavies... the Matchmaker fails.

Why is everyone using high-alpha builds?

Lots of people start flocking to high-alpha builds either because they want their balls to feel big or are too lazy to use normal builds. They can one-hit kill most 'mechs and usually end up getting more kills and damage. This creates a feedback loop which causes these players to keep on boating and never look back.

Use High-Alpha Build>Murders entire opposing team>EHMAGERD MAH BALLS FEEL BIG>*Loop*

LRMs EVERYWHERE!!! (Not really a balance problem anymore)

Most LRM Boats are driven by people who want to support their team or people who's computers are so laggy that's the only thing they can do. Others simply do it because they can deal lots of damage with it. (I remember my 2 ALRM15 Trebuchet Pre-Nerf... I usually get 1099 damage those days...)


One of the biggest problems however, is ELO. ELO only works when there is a large amount of players with a huge variety of ELO Scores. When there is a lack of players with varying ELO Scores, the Matchmaker just starts to fail.

So, comments, feedback and questions on why a first time poster is doing this are welcome.

NOTICE: THIS IS MAINLY FOR PUGS

AT CERTAIN TIMEZONES

Edited by Allendale Kao, 20 June 2013 - 06:50 AM.

[Victor Morson]

Or, you know, they want to win and they want to win. Because tonning up and going high alpha is how you win right now.

[Allendale Kao]

Victor Morson, on 20 June 2013 - 05:40 AM, said:

Or, you know, they want to win and they want to win. Because tonning up and going high alpha is how you win right now.

Well... yeah. That's basically what I tried to say in my overly complex post while explaining their psychology.

Edited by Allendale Kao, 20 June 2013 - 05:43 AM.

[Asmudius Heng]

Allendale Kao, on 20 June 2013 - 05:42 AM, said:

Well... yeah. That's basically what I tried to say in my overly complex post while explaining their psychology.

Not really you basically said they are too lazy to use 'normal builds'

Too lazy or just do not want to lose?

Big difference.

If you mean people feel rewarded when they do well nd win and so gravitate to the best option to do so then yes you are riht but I hardly think that is a revelation.

[TheMadPoet]

Allendale Kao, on 20 June 2013 - 05:38 AM, said:

This coupled with the fact that most new players can't exactly understand english and don't have proper computers make them unable to learn from experience properly and forever play Assaults and Heavies and suck at it.

That is a BIG assumption, and no doubt an incorrect one as well..

I will make an assumption of my own: Most new players are learning how to play, the same as the experienced players had to, and are trying to find mech builds that give them some success, same as the experienced players do.

[blueferral]

Stop feeding the troll.

[Onmyoudo]

That wasn't a psychological assessment of anybody but the OP. And it's not flattering.

2 posts, troll food. Didn't notice.

Edited by Onmyoudo, 20 June 2013 - 06:05 AM.

[OnLashoc]

I wish it were that easy.

Just take the biggest mech = wins.

This however is not the case.

I have witnessed people using the bigger mechs only to display their lack of being able to fire at a moving target and hit from even the shortest of ranges (100 to 200 meters). I have sat after killing half the enemy team before dying myself in a Jenner or Hunchie only to watch the person:

A. Stay max zoomed in on said target at 100 to 200 meters away.

B. Refuse to hit "R" to target the said enemy mech so he / she can see where shots need to be focused at.

C. Choose to go for the biggest healthiest target first when deciding between two or more mechs.

D. Continuously Alpha strike regardless of heat accumulation in stead of shooting in groups or single weapons.

E. Try to run away against a weaker, easily kill target.

So, why is it I am constantly paired up with teammates that consistently do less than 100 damage? I'm not talking 1 or 2, I'm talking Group A averages around 350-600+ damage and Group B. Averages 0-100 damage? When comparing the mechs, there is usually no discernible difference, but there is an obvious drop off in talent.

From my understanding ELO is supposed to match up likewise skill players, with & against.

It's frustrating to give all obvious and apparent effort in a match only to have complete imbeciles unable to simply navigate River City's, city streets, never the less target, aim, shoot, and hit an enemy mech that may or may not be moving.

[Allendale Kao]

TheMadPoet, on 20 June 2013 - 06:01 AM, said:

That is a BIG assumption, and no doubt an incorrect one as well..

I will make an assumption of my own: Most new players are learning how to play, the same as the experienced players had to, and are trying to find mech builds that give them some success, same as the experienced players do.

Well, I do live in a different timezone, and the players are VERY different from how you assume them to be.

I did ask them questions, most of them responded in either broken english or not at all. (They also have odd names)

Onmyoudo, on 20 June 2013 - 06:04 AM, said:

That wasn't a psychological assessment of anybody but the OP. And it's not flattering.

2 posts, troll food. Didn't notice.

This isn't an opinion. Notice I said 'most players...' and not 'EVERYONE IS A ******'

As for trolling, did you think I would spend half an hour typing this to waste your time?

Edited by Allendale Kao, 20 June 2013 - 06:14 AM.

[Karazyr]

aw im barely rustled, im quite disappointed


anyway this post is just wrong:

[Allendale Kao]

Derrpy, on 20 June 2013 - 06:15 AM, said:

aw im barely rustled, im quite disappointed


anyway this post is just wrong:

Which is why I kindly asked you guys to post feedback instead of saying 'WRONG'

[Zerberus]

Allendale Kao, on 20 June 2013 - 06:13 AM, said:

As for trolling, did you think I would spend half an hour typing this to waste your time?

Not saying you are or arent, but you would`n be the first to do exactly this. It`s unfathomable what lengths some people will go to to make themselves seem (Insert desirable personal attribute of choice here).

As far as tonning up in PUG: If I solo drop, it`s probably in a catapult or atlas. As soon as I start playing with friends, it`s probably in a spider, and when 4 of us run around in lights on comms it doesn`t really matter what the enemy team is running, we are almost guaranteed the win if something hugely surprising doesn`t happen, simply due to the high level of coordination and teamplay combined with teh speed and range to give US the decision of when to engage, instead of leaving that to the enemy`S discretion. We often do it specifically so that people will slowly learn that assaults are not > everything else (and for the adrenaline kick)

[AnnoyingCat]

You gots a degree in psychology Mr. smarty pants?

[Gaan Cathal]

Allendale Kao, on 20 June 2013 - 05:38 AM, said:

This coupled with the fact that most new players can't exactly understand english and don't have proper computers make them unable to learn from experience properly and forever play Assaults and Heavies and suck at it.

Lawl

Additionally - why the hell isn't this in K-town yet?

Edited by Gaan Cathal, 20 June 2013 - 06:41 AM.

[Allendale Kao]

AnnoyingCat, on 20 June 2013 - 06:33 AM, said:

You gots a degree in psychology Mr. smarty pants?

Ah. I knew someone would notice and post that. While I don't exactly have a degree, I did read an entire thousand page textbook on psychology. (And understood most of it) Not that I'm trying to say I'm qualified or anything.

Also, I LOVE CATS! :3

Gaan Cathal, on 20 June 2013 - 06:41 AM, said:

Lawl

Additionally - why the hell isn't this in K-town yet?

You'll notice this if you played in another timezone.

[Jestun]

TheMadPoet, on 20 June 2013 - 06:01 AM, said:

That is a BIG assumption, and no doubt an incorrect one as well..

I will make an assumption of my own: Most new players are learning how to play, the same as the experienced players had to, and are trying to find mech builds that give them some success, same as the experienced players do.

I'd go even further and say that new players who have been stuck in trial mechs found they stood a much better chance in a bigger, tougher trial mech. So when they come to build their own custom mech they assume that will continue to be the case and choose heavy / assault over light / medium.

[Victor Morson]

Jestun, on 20 June 2013 - 06:48 AM, said:

I'd go even further and say that new players who have been stuck in trial mechs found they stood a much better chance in a bigger, tougher trial mech. So when they come to build their own custom mech they assume that will continue to be the case and choose heavy / assault over light / medium.

They assume.. wisely.

Lights are nearly useless in PUG games, outside of capping points in Conquest. Nobody uses them to defend the base, nobody sticks together.

Mediums are useless in PUGs and 8v8s, unless it's a medium that goes light speeds or is an LRM skirmisher. Past that if you're not in a private league, good luck against the enemy team's 7 Highlanders.

Heavies are mostly all highly specialized trash, with the only well balanced heavy we have being the Cataphract. The Orion would have been a contender, but you know. The 3D (and some gimmick builds on the others) is that "mobility of a slower medium with firepower of a lighter assault" sweet spot.

Assaults win at everything else. If they're not capping or even refusing to play the cap game, they're flat out better at everything. This is just the way BattleTech is. The classes will never be "different but equal" because they all use the same weapon and equipment pool. It's just a limitation of the universe.

My point is the sooner we get tonnage balancing so you can only afford a couple assaults per team, the faster people will start playing mediums again. I know for a fact this works, because in all of the weight balanced leagues - surprise - mediums are really good.

But I'm sure not going to expect a casual gamer to get into a medium and handicap themselves in a restriction-less environment.

Edited by Victor Morson, 20 June 2013 - 06:53 AM.

[Tombstoner]

Jestun, on 20 June 2013 - 06:48 AM, said:

I'd go even further and say that new players who have been stuck in trial mechs found they stood a much better chance in a bigger, tougher trial mech. So when they come to build their own custom mech they assume that will continue to be the case and choose heavy / assault over light / medium.

or maybe they have more "fun" playing larger mechs... "fun" changes the way people behave, not "fun" has the same affect who knew....

BTW what do you... like to play..... assault perhaps?

[RG Notch]

Allendale Kao, on 20 June 2013 - 06:13 AM, said:

Well, I do live in a different timezone, and the players are VERY different from how you assume them to be.

I did ask them questions, most of them responded in either broken english or not at all. (They also have odd names)



This isn't an opinion. Notice I said 'most players...' and not 'EVERYONE IS A ******'

As for trolling, did you think I would spend half an hour typing this to waste your time?

Why didn't you post this from your main account?

[Jestun]

Tombstoner, on 20 June 2013 - 06:55 AM, said:

or maybe they have more "fun" playing larger mechs... "fun" changes the way people behave, not "fun" has the same affect who knew....

BTW what do you... like to play..... assault perhaps?

More fun as in fun for a longer amount of time... when it comes to trial mechs I have no doubt that is the case.

They then go from 4 trial mechs to being able to purchase 1 mech without testing it in advance, without testing different weapons in advance, without being able to experiment with loadouts in advance (ingame anyway, experienced players know of web apps which let you plan a build).

So after 25 matches of the biggest possible mech to survive longest and kill the most, of course they are more likely to buy a big mech.


New players do not know which size is more fun because all they have seen is 4 stock mechs, and the reality is that stock mechs are poor. So based on what little inof they have they are more likely to buy a big mech.