72 replies to this topic

[FupDup]

aniviron, on 20 June 2013 - 04:31 PM, said:

It was a HUD bug, had this one, looked about like the screenshot posted above.

I don't think that's proof of anything just yet though. It's quite possible that's just a remnant from some system that was never publicly implemented; if the Timberwolf gets two additional component sections, well, it gets more crits and more places to spread damage, and that doesn't seem like a great idea from a balance perspective to me.

In terms of damage spreading, the pods are mounted so high up that they really won't be able to draw much fire from the CT or head. Regardless, if they did split the locations they could just also split the armor between the pods and side torsos so that the total armor points are the same (same thing for component sections, give like 2-3 slots per pod and 9-10 per side torso).

Edited by FupDup, 20 June 2013 - 04:36 PM.

[aniviron]

FupDup, on 20 June 2013 - 04:33 PM, said:

In terms of damage spreading, the pods are mounted so high up that they really won't be able to draw much fire from the CT or head. Regardless, if they did split the locations they could just also split the armor between the pods and side torsos so that the total armor points are the same (same thing for component sections, give like 2-3 slots per pod and 9-10 per side torso).

Yeah, I went back and read the thread that was linked, and there were some good ideas in there. A part of me really dislikes making the rules complicated and arbitrary for just one mech though- if we were going to do that, the hbk should get more rt armor, the dragon more ct armor, etc. There were some really good ideas in the thread, but we will have to wait and see what happens. I can say for sure though that if the pods do just count as lt/rt the Timberwolf will be DOA.

[mindwarp]

All of the clan mechs will have terrible, terrible hitboxes. The Masakari's torso is wider than an Awesome. The Vulture's arms are tiny and it's torso is massive. The Nova can't torso twist and has a massive "shoot me" CT. The Gladiator, Thor and Loki all have massive side torsos that stick up above their heads. And the Madcat is probably the worst of the lot with it's missile pods, low slung arms and massive bullet torso.

[Vanguard319]

mindwarp, on 20 June 2013 - 06:29 PM, said:

All of the clan mechs will have terrible, terrible hitboxes. The Masakari's torso is wider than an Awesome. The Vulture's arms are tiny and it's torso is massive. The Nova can't torso twist and has a massive "shoot me" CT. The Gladiator, Thor and Loki all have massive side torsos that stick up above their heads. And the Madcat is probably the worst of the lot with it's missile pods, low slung arms and massive bullet torso.

As far as the Nova is concerned, seeing how it carries 12 ER medium Lasers in primary configuration, and has a low slung body, the fact it can't torso twist, or will have minimal ability to do so seems reasonable in terms of balance. (think of it as a mini Stalker) In addition, I would like to point out that Clan Ferro-Fibrous armor doesn't just take up less space, but it is even more effective than what IS mechs carry. (according to TT, FF is 12% more effective than standard for IS, 20% for clan.) Again, the increased hit box size would likely help with game balance.

[Fate 6]

mindwarp, on 20 June 2013 - 06:29 PM, said:

All of the clan mechs will have terrible, terrible hitboxes. The Masakari's torso is wider than an Awesome. The Vulture's arms are tiny and it's torso is massive. The Nova can't torso twist and has a massive "shoot me" CT. The Gladiator, Thor and Loki all have massive side torsos that stick up above their heads. And the Madcat is probably the worst of the lot with it's missile pods, low slung arms and massive bullet torso.

Nova will have tiny hitboxes, just look at the picture of it. It's all legs. If they give it side torsos, they're either be tiny or make the CT tiny. Either way it's going to be legit.

Also, WTF IS A THOR. I think you mean Summoner, but you let your Inner Sphere origins slip there. Same for Loki. HELLBRINGER PLZ

Edited by Fate 6, 20 June 2013 - 10:19 PM.

[627]

So everyone mentioned MW4 Hitboxes... how was it solved there?

[mindwarp]

I was playing Battletech before the clans arrived. So I'll call them whatever I damn well please. And those legs are going to cause problems with the hitboxes since the arms are attached to the hips. It will probably get a hefty redesign, but as it stands, those massive hip joints will be the side torsos so that the arms connect correctly, leaving the centre section to be the CT.

[Fate 6]

mindwarp, on 20 June 2013 - 10:30 PM, said:

I was playing Battletech before the clans arrived. So I'll call them whatever I damn well please. And those legs are going to cause problems with the hitboxes since the arms are attached to the hips. It will probably get a hefty redesign, but as it stands, those massive hip joints will be the side torsos so that the arms connect correctly, leaving the centre section to be the CT.

There's not much room for redesigns with the clan mechs. They have a defined in-game look. If they start remodelling Timberwolves and Dire Wolves and Mad Dogs all over the place, many of us will have a field day.

[Ogresan]

They shouldn't arbitrarily add hit boxes for any mech because of its shape. If you don't want big easy to shoot torsos, don't put missiles on and the pods shouldn't be there. They add the launchers (and other weapons) to many mechs already in game and they don't have extra hit boxes. I don't think Clan pilots really have a leg to stand on if they are arguing this from a balance perspective. I am pretty sure the Mauler will have bigger problems then the GrumpyKitty or what ever its called with its twin towers of SHOOT HERE PLEASE.
Off topic: I sure hope we get the Mauler. =-P

[DarkDevilDancer]

Clan side torsos arnt that weak given that their XL engines have two not three engine locations there.

At this point it's too early to know all this is idle speculation.

[MeiSooHaityu]

aniviron, on 20 June 2013 - 04:31 PM, said:

I don't think that's proof of anything just yet though. It's quite possible that's just a remnant from some system that was never publicly implemented; if the Timberwolf gets two additional component sections, well, it gets more crits and more places to spread damage, and that doesn't seem like a great idea from a balance perspective to me.

Yep, that's why I said "rumor has it".

I don't think additional missile hitboxes unbalance the mech that much, however if it is THAT contreversial, I would think PGI would make the missile pods part of the arms and not the side torsos.

If anyone on here hopes the missile pods will be considered side torso, they will be disapointed. Like I said, if anything, they will be part of the arm hitboxes. Might not be MUCH better, but blowing off a missile pod shouldn't cause an enigne explosion. I think that is common sense.

[Strum Wealh]

Fate 6, on 20 June 2013 - 10:18 PM, said:

Nova will have tiny hitboxes, just look at the picture of it. It's all legs. If they give it side torsos, they're either be tiny or make the CT tiny. Either way it's going to be legit.

Also, WTF IS A THOR. I think you mean Summoner, but you let your Inner Sphere origins slip there. Same for Loki. HELLBRINGER PLZ

However, the Jenner is normally built the same way, with the torso connected to the arms through the hip joints...






... and the MWO rendition hat its torso (and arms) raised above the hip joints, to allow torso-twisting...




... so there is a non-zero chance - possibly even a pretty good chance, IMO - that the Black Hawk (yes, Black Hawk ) could and would be likewise modified (by having the torso raised above the legs to make it capable of torso-twisting).

[Kazly]

It was a cool picture none the less. Unfortunately I'm not familiar with TT and I seemed to be the only kid in the state that liked battletech back before the internet had seen AOL. I really don't have any good way to solve it, because it seems unfair to me to make the should pods share the same armor value as the arms or (god forbid, as pointed out above, the problems with an XL) torsos.

Why not have separate armor locations? They could update the catapult accordingly, and the TW/MC would just have much lowre armor values in those locations.

I think the problems with the nova are going to be much worse, as pointed out.

[Adridos]

Don't forget that omnies are quite small mechs compared to IS (around 1.5 m difference between them and their IS peers).

[Skylarr]

Another Mad Cat thread. This should be combined with the "If a MadCat was made the shoulder missile launchers would be part of the" thread.

[101011]

aniviron, on 20 June 2013 - 04:31 PM, said:

I don't think that's proof of anything just yet though. It's quite possible that's just a remnant from some system that was never publicly implemented; if the Timberwolf gets two additional component sections, well, it gets more crits and more places to spread damage, and that doesn't seem like a great idea from a balance perspective to me.

I just had a thought: what if they decided to make it different? Say the only difference between the sections was a critical one, where destroying the upper-left torso would not destroy the left arm, or the engine. The two (upper and lower) sections would share criticals (12 total) and armor (shared, not equal, like MW4). This would:

• Remove the problem of more places to spread fire: damage would still hit the side-torso.
  
• Prevent an arm/engine being destroyed by someone sniping the ears.
  
• Keep a balanced number of hardpoints.

I think it might work!

[Gremlich Johns]

If you guys are in the Clans threads, you should at least use the Clan names for everything but the Cauldron Born.

The mech the OP is talking about is the "Timberwolf".

[Zerberus]

Kazly, on 20 June 2013 - 09:44 AM, said:

What are they going to do with the Madcat?

Give it 4 arm locations?

It`s called MadCat, not IrateOctopus

For clanners that know what their mechs are called: Timberwolf, not Forestsquid

[Phantom360]

Just out of curiosity why is every one panicking over the mad cats over sized torso now it has always been like this ever since mechwarrior 2, on top of that why worry clan weapons and targeting systems out range innersphere weapons and targeting systems so by the time an innersphere mech gets within range for a head shot it has been basically cored eg longest IS weapon is hitting at just over 1000 metres while clan longest weaponry is brought to bear at just under 2000 metres.
Plus a mad cat is moving a a mediums speed so unless you stand still in the open like an ***** or you targeted by the second coming of Rambo you should be fine .
Now about the large centre torso why worry if its bothering u clan ferro fibberous armor is much lighter than innersphere armor so on those clan heavies you have as deffalt the armor of an assault mech and if your still paranoid drop some of rose machine guns and their ammo and add some more armor no big deal.
Please don't start rageing at me I'm just stating what I know about the mad cat or timber wolf as some of u clan veterans like to call it

[Pariah Devalis]

Honestly, I feel like the worry about the Timber Wolf's side torsos are a bit... premature? Excessive? Considering the center torso pretty much makes up the bulk (IE: everything BUT the missile pods!) of the mech's torso real estate, that is what I would be most concerned about. Two tiny missile pods that can easily have the missile blast doors attached to them for the passive 10% damage reduction seems like hardly an earth shattering problem. This is compounded by the Clan XL Engine requiring not just one but both side torsos to be blown off for engine failure further reducing the risk.

Edited by Pariah Devalis, 02 November 2013 - 03:43 PM.