20 replies to this topic

[VXJaeger]

Is it really still viable that gauss-rifles hitpoints are just 3? And why AC20 hitpoints are 18?
PPC has outclassed gauss as sniper weapon a long time ago so its HP could be brought back to 10, and I can't figure why AC20 has such a huge amount of HP.

[Iron Hyena]

Because AC/20 takes up a huge amount of space, and has a lot of heat and ammo to use it. It takes about 20 tons per AC/20 to be efficient.

[Gaan Cathal]

PPC is supposedly being brought back in line with the heat penalty. No reason to de-limit the Gauss so it can take over from it.

[VXJaeger]

Still 3*PPC will equal 2*gauss by dmg, and its not going to be heatnerfed.

[Bloody Moon]

I have a question. Are you enjoying the current sniper meta?
'cos it is very likely that Gauss rifles will take the place of PPCs when PPCs get nerfed in some way.
It is not much of a problem now, but when we'll have Assaults that have the tonnage and slots to mount 3 Gauss rifles effectively i assure you they will be frightening, much like the 4PPC Stalkers now except it will carry ammo instead of heatsinks.

Edit: PGI wants to change the current meta, let's wait 'til they do before wanting to buff the secondary sniper weapon.

Edited by Bloody Moon, 19 June 2013 - 02:30 AM.

[Satan n stuff]

Dornhal, on 19 June 2013 - 01:56 AM, said:

Because AC/20 takes up a huge amount of space, and has a lot of heat and ammo to use it. It takes about 20 tons per AC/20 to be efficient.

Specifically because it has at best a 5/6 chance of taking any critical hit to the section it's in. Before the hp buff you'd have lost it the second your armor was gone.

Also PPCs don't exactly outclass Gauss rifles, you can just equip more of them. Gauss + ( ER ) PPCs is still the best combo.

[FERAL TIGER]

I agree that 3 is a tad low, but gauss still has its benefits as a sniper with a faster, more accurate shot than ppc. Low HP has always accompanied GC's, it's just part of the risk. With their weight though, I think a single GC is more effective, freeing up 15 tons to make a more diverse mech.

When running duals, I like 2GC better than 2AC20 since the extra ammo, distance, and better heat score make the weight and risk worth it.

[Satan n stuff]

FERAL TIGER, on 19 June 2013 - 02:40 AM, said:

I agree that 3 is a tad low, but gauss still has its benefits as a sniper with a faster, more accurate shot than ppc. Low HP has always accompanied GC's, it's just part of the risk. With their weight though, I think a single GC is more effective, freeing up 15 tons to make a more diverse mech.

When running duals, I like 2GC better than 2AC20 since the extra ammo, distance, and better heat score make the weight and risk worth it.

Gauss projectiles actually travel slower than PPC projectiles. ( 1200 VS 2000 ) The only real advantage they have is that they generate next to no heat, which is enough to keep them competitive.
The heat generated by 2 AC/20s is irrelevant most of the time as long as you have DHS, and the ( 33% ) more powerful alpha strike means that combo is extremely dangerous within effective range. It takes some doing to close to 270m on some maps but it's manageable if you have a half-decent team. The 10 extra points of damage you get per ton of ammo for a Gauss is nothing to get excited about as you'll have a gun that weighs 1 ton more than an AC/20 as well. Gauss VS AC/20 is basically a tossup between range and damage, and with decent skill you can make the most of either.

[aniviron]

***** n stuff, on 19 June 2013 - 02:53 AM, said:

Gauss projectiles actually travel slower than PPC projectiles. ( 1200 VS 2000 ) The only real advantage they have is that they generate next to no heat, which is enough to keep them competitive.
The heat generated by 2 AC/20s is irrelevant most of the time as long as you have DHS, and the ( 33% ) more powerful alpha strike means that combo is extremely dangerous within effective range. It takes some doing to close to 270m on some maps but it's manageable if you have a half-decent team. The 10 extra points of damage you get per ton of ammo for a Gauss is nothing to get excited about as you'll have a gun that weighs 1 ton more than an AC/20 as well. Gauss VS AC/20 is basically a tossup between range and damage, and with decent skill you can make the most of either.

The comparison for heat between gauss and ac20 is more salient when considered in a non-vacuum situation. Specifically, the heat difference is negligible while comparing 2xgauss vs 2xppc loadouts, but if you are doing anything besides boating, the difference is huge. As an example, I run a HBK-4H; for the longest time I ran it with an ac20 and one less laser than the linked build. But it turned out that when I switched to the gauss over the ac20, the biggest difference was that once I hit my heat cap from the lasers, I could keep firing the gauss and still be cooling down while doing damage, whereas the ac20 brought my heat back up enough with every shot that the lasers were essentially out of commission for the fight once my heat was above 80%. Now that I am gaussing instead, I can keep firing with that and still get more potshots in with the lasers.

[VXJaeger]

Bloody Moon, on 19 June 2013 - 02:28 AM, said:

I have a question. Are you enjoying the current sniper meta?
'cos it is very likely that Gauss rifles will take the place of PPCs when PPCs get nerfed in some way.
It is not much of a problem now, but when we'll have Assaults that have the tonnage and slots to mount 3 Gauss rifles effectively i assure you they will be frightening, much like the 4PPC Stalkers now except it will carry ammo instead of heatsinks.

Edit: PGI wants to change the current meta, let's wait 'til they do before wanting to buff the secondary sniper weapon.

After poptarts got JJ-nerf, yes.
PPCs will get heatnerf to 4+ carried, but 3 is still equal dmg-level that 2*gauss. No need to carry ammo and PPC will still be more accurate sniperweapon 'cause of projectile speed, 2000m/s vs. 1200m/s.
There will not be such assaults which can mount 3+ gauss.

I'm still sayin' that there's no reason why gauss' HP still should be 3 instead of 10 or even 15. After all, that ******* really explodes hard when destroyed, and takes half mech with it.

[Gaan Cathal]

VXJaeger, on 19 June 2013 - 05:56 AM, said:

There will not be such assaults which can mount 3+ gauss.

The Annihilator would like a word. Specifically the ANH-1G.

I'd also not be surprised, if we ever see the King Crab, to find a Hero Mech with a side torso ballistic hardpoint for the specific purposes of the Triple-Gauss build.

[Thragen]

Let me preface my comments by saying I was here during closed beta when the gauss rifle was king and a nerf was in order because every other ballistic weapon including the AC 20 was terrible!!!

Having said the above, I couldn't disagree more with the view that the gauss rifle is fine **now**. The gauss rifle is way, way too fragile in any mech except the catapult and it's only usable there because of the very, very small profile for of the catapult's LT and RT. And arm mounted gauss rifles generally don't last very long into a drop. Can you imagine PGI bringing in the Devastator mech with the gauss rifle as fragile as it is now. That mech would be an absolute joke because any team pug or otherwise that is paying attention is going to de-arm it PDQ!!!

In my opinion, the gauss rifle needs to have the same hp as other weapons ( 10 ) and same chance to blow up like normal ammo ( 10%, I think ). Now having said that, it still needs some other sort of nerf or we might end up with the same situation we had in closed beta. I think giving the gauss rifle the min 90 meter range like TT and the same damage profile that the normal ppc has between 0-90 meters would suffice to keep it from returning to the only brawling ballistic choice.

Edited by Thragen, 19 June 2013 - 08:02 AM.

[Gaan Cathal]

Thragen, on 19 June 2013 - 08:00 AM, said:

Let me preface my comments by saying I was here during closed beta when the gauss rifle was king and a nerf was in order because every other ballistic weapon including the AC 20 was terrible!!!

Having said the above, I couldn't disagree more with the view that the gauss rifle is fine **now**. The gauss rifle is way, way too fragile in any mech except the catapult and it's only usable there because of the very, very small profile for of the catapult's LT and RT. And arm mounted gauss rifles generally don't last very long into a drop. Can you imagine PGI bringing in the Devastator mech with the gauss rifle as fragile as it is now. That mech would be an absolute joke because any team pug or otherwise that is paying attention is going to de-arm it PDQ!!!

In my opinion, the gauss rifle needs to have the same hp as other weapons ( 10 ) and same chance to blow up like normal ammo ( 10%, I think ). Now having said that, it still needs some other sort of nerf or we might end up with the same situation we had in closed beta. I think giving the gauss rifle the min 90 meter range like TT and the same damage profile that the normal ppc has between 0-90 meters would suffice to keep it from returning to the only brawling ballistic choice.

I know several guys that drop with Gauss in various non-pult loadouts and don't loose them particularly fast. The (C) Dragon for example is a build that does well with it. Even if it does get nuked, it's only an arm (and a little ST damage), but it rarely happens before the halfway mark. You just need to look after them a little, don't do stupid **** like shield your CT with the Gauss arm, etc.

[Thragen]

Gaan Cathal, on 19 June 2013 - 08:25 AM, said:

I know several guys that drop with Gauss in various non-pult loadouts and don't loose them particularly fast. The © Dragon for example is a build that does well with it. Even if it does get nuked, it's only an arm (and a little ST damage), but it rarely happens before the halfway mark. You just need to look after them a little, don't do stupid **** like shield your CT with the Gauss arm, etc.

@Dragon comment - only if you play sniper. And in my opinion that's not what the Dragon should be used for. It should be used as a fast striker mixing it up with other mechs at medium range and then escaping if someone slower tries to close. Also, it may only be an arm but that arm probably contained anywhere from 30-50% of a Dragon's firepower. We'll just have to choose to disagree. The gauss rifle simply has too many handicaps and adversely affects how mechs that carry them are played.

[VXJaeger]

Gaan Cathal, on 19 June 2013 - 07:47 AM, said:

The Annihilator would like a word. Specifically the ANH-1G.

I'd also not be surprised, if we ever see the King Crab, to find a Hero Mech with a side torso ballistic hardpoint for the specific purposes of the Triple-Gauss build.

I can't think why anyone (besides myself 'cause I'm an *****) would drive 3-4 gauss mech, because it always explodes when you get a pack of LRMs to your head, or some anklebiter starts swirling around you. Only thing why I run gauss on my Misery is, that I like the apperance of legged steel ***** w/ extra penetrator on its head.

Edited by VXJaeger, 19 June 2013 - 12:21 PM.

[VXJaeger]

After 8 vs 8 -> 12 vs 12 PPCs will be even more OP than this moment over all ballistics, not just gauss. That's because it doesn't need ammo, and I don't think that devs will add more ammo/ton to any gun.
In future it is all energy weapons and nobody doesn't really need to learn how to lead target.

[Buzzkillin]

VXJaeger, on 20 June 2013 - 12:52 PM, said:

After 8 vs 8 -> 12 vs 12 PPCs will be even more OP than this moment over all ballistics, not just gauss. That's because it doesn't need ammo, and I don't think that devs will add more ammo/ton to any gun.
In future it is all energy weapons and nobody doesn't really need to learn how to lead target.

We have to wait and see if what happens if 12 vs 12. With 4 extra people that is 4 extra mechs. You would only need extra ammo if you are carrying the team my guess. We won't know till it's implemented.

[Levi Porphyrogenitus]

Hit points and explosion potential are virtually the only weaknesses the Gauss has. The AC20 is very short-ranged, very bulky, very low ammo, very slow projectile, and very hot. If anything we need more brawling weapons with increased hit points (SRM launchers and Pulse weapons for instance) and more sniper weapons with fewer (ER weapons).

[Joseph Mallan]

VXJaeger, on 19 June 2013 - 01:55 AM, said:

Is it really still viable that gauss-rifles hitpoints are just 3? And why AC20 hitpoints are 18?
PPC has outclassed gauss as sniper weapon a long time ago so its HP could be brought back to 10, and I can't figure why AC20 has such a huge amount of HP.

I am used to the Gauss having 1 HP and ALWAYS exploding on a crit. We are being spoiled.

[aniviron]

I run a gauss on my HBK-4H and don't feel like it needs much tweaking. Yes, it is annoying to lose the hunch to a weapon explosion so soon after the armor comes off, but the gauss is so much better than the AC20 I don't really mind. Just run CASE, and there's really not much difference; as soon as that quad ppc shot tears into the section without armor, it's coming off, whether or not it hits anything explosive.