Jump to content

Lrms, Spotting, And You 6/20/13


38 replies to this topic

#21 TooDumbToQuit

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The Death Wish
  • 1,539 posts

Posted 13 January 2018 - 11:42 AM

This was a great guide

I want to mention a couple of things.</p>

1) You always hear that anyone that uses LRMs is a Tier 5 scrub. Yet, I've seen 12 man teams that are some of the best in the game them. One reason they work so well is that almost n one is prepared for them. I have now done (just with LikeUntoGod) 986 sieges. And there are a couple of maps where on defense, they are killers.

They are a couple of keys IMO. To work really well, you need at least 4 high power LRM boats. And they need to work together and with their Spotters and Narcers and they need to all attack the same target. There is 3 Siege maps where LRMs work well on <strong>Defense</strong> in CW. I remember a game a few months ago on Boreal Vault where we got in ok and we were doing a nice conga line up the outside on the left side.

Then the front of our line hit the gap/turn at the corner of E8. First came airstrikes and during them a Narc Raven Narced several of us. And then a waterfall of LRMs started coming in. I was near the rear so I watched one heavy/assault mech after another try to move forward and it would be staggered and destroyed in seconds.

2) The other point is when you are in a 12 man and moving together often only the 3-4 mechs in the front can fire. But if you have a couple of LRMers moving with them, they can fire over the front line and you can get the 2 on 1 that you want. The LRMer everyone hates is the one sitting 700-800ms back and is firing over a hill. And then he makes sure everyone knows how much damage he/she did eve when the team lost.

Talking about damage, go to a test map with LRMs and compare the damage to a direct fire weapon. Unless you are close and the enemy mech is staring right you, most of your damage with go all over it. Then compare that to using a laser and you will notice that you can aim at a leg or a torso etc. (I do not see that well, I just aim for the middle of the red square, lol)

If you are playing Quick Play find out if anyone else is carrying them and become battle buddies. Stay together and fire at the same target.

Remember that one big reason that players hate LRMs is they get killed by them and they is sometime nothing they can do. Sure, depending where you are you might be able to hide. But you might be moving right where someone else can shoot you.

Tusunie, I also used to (I might start doing it again) carry one LRM 5 just to shake the enemy up. I'd link it with a ERLL so they fired together. Often, instead of standing and firing back at me, they would move to hide from the HUGE amount of missiles they though were coming at them. I did not care if they landed, I just wanted that alarm to go off in their cockpit.

Thanks again!

Edited by LikeUntoGod, 13 January 2018 - 11:49 AM.


#22 Barkem Squirrel

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The Bowman
  • The Bowman
  • 1,080 posts
  • LocationEarth.

Posted 14 September 2018 - 12:50 PM

I like the updates and now the new changes have not affected them too much. hell the velocity at 190, with quirks and skills from the tree you can get some going 220 to 230. I can remember when 175 had people balling and they lowered it to 160. That was from 140.

I think the biggest thing was Artemis not affecting lock on times for LRMs and by defalt the SSRMs.

Then the flight path of the LRMs I have to look at to see if the heights is affected by the velocity. or is the range from the mech determining the heights or is it distance from the mech. that means under the deck in crimson you can LRM from beyond 210 meters.

Then the smaller lock on box just means OMG 20 toners! Crap I'm dead.

Still secondary weapons should come up, like the LL or ERLL combo with LRMs they work well together. I do not know how many times the ERML's on clan mechs or the LL's on IS mechs have finished off the mech instead of firing again.

Then the reduction of Clan LRMs for CT hits along with from a while ago a general nerf for hitting CT's with all LRMs.

Still the grasshopper with a LRM 5, OMG the way people back off from all the LRMs, ha. Want to see people jump, that is how.

#23 Tier5ForLife

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Survivor
  • 481 posts

Posted 20 September 2018 - 12:35 PM

NA

Edited by Tier5ForLife, 23 September 2018 - 04:37 PM.


#24 Tesunie

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The Seeker
  • The Seeker
  • 8,411 posts
  • LocationSeraphim HQ: Asuncion

Posted 20 September 2018 - 04:51 PM

View PostLikeUntoBuddha, on 20 September 2018 - 12:35 PM, said:

I honestly never saw that it was old. I do not look at the dates.


Old, but still mostly relevant.

I keep trying to update it from time to time... Posted Image

#25 Mechwarrior 37

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 174 posts

Posted 24 September 2018 - 06:10 AM

He was told that he "necroed" an old thread.

#26 Alreech

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Little Helper
  • Little Helper
  • 1,114 posts

Posted 24 September 2018 - 07:55 AM

To be honest, i tried to level up the Trebuchet Champion with LRMs.
Even with TAG and unlocked arms is it almost impossible to get in Tier 2 Solo Quickplay a good lock.
(BAP / or Targetting Computer II isn't helpfull either).
Maybe the Target Lock Time is some hidden stat at mechlevel (like the Sensor Range Quirks for the Ravens) and the Trebuchet is just bad at it.

IMHO just don't mount LRMs and don't give a dam on teamwork.
Mount MRMs or SRMs and kill damaged enemys instead of supporting light mechs with LRM fire is much more effective for the own stats.

#27 Tesunie

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The Seeker
  • The Seeker
  • 8,411 posts
  • LocationSeraphim HQ: Asuncion

Posted 24 September 2018 - 08:36 AM

View PostAlreech, on 24 September 2018 - 07:55 AM, said:

To be honest, i tried to level up the Trebuchet Champion with LRMs.
Even with TAG and unlocked arms is it almost impossible to get in Tier 2 Solo Quickplay a good lock.
(BAP / or Targetting Computer II isn't helpfull either).
Maybe the Target Lock Time is some hidden stat at mechlevel (like the Sensor Range Quirks for the Ravens) and the Trebuchet is just bad at it.

IMHO just don't mount LRMs and don't give a dam on teamwork.
Mount MRMs or SRMs and kill damaged enemys instead of supporting light mechs with LRM fire is much more effective for the own stats.


I'm T1, and it is still possible to get missile locks for LRMs at any tier. It does get more challenging typically as you go up in tier level though, typically because of the skill level of your opponents.

As for other points, Champion mechs don't have any skills unlocked, which hurt them compared to fully skilled mechs you may own. For example, a Champion LRM mech doesn't have the adv target decay nodes unlocked, making it easier to lose locks once line of sight is broken.
As another tip, many people seem to think BAP and TC (Targeting computer) influence missile lock on times. They do not. BAP reveals nearby shut down mechs, disables a single enemy ECM unit nearby, increases sensor ranges and target data gathering (makes the enemies damage display and weapons load out appear faster for you). TCs increase zoom levels, weapon profiles (except LBx and missiles), sensor ranges and I believe target data gathering as well.

TAG is helpful as it still speeds up missile locking speeds and helps cut through ECM at a distance. It does require line of sight as well as reasonable aim for best effectiveness. (It also improves tracking/homing strength as well as missile grouping still.)

Artemis has changed as of recently. It provides much the same benefits as TAG, but without increasing missile lock on speeds. It only improves spread now (and maybe tracking strength, but I don't believe so anymore).


Sadly, it's all too often more beneficial to play selfishly in this game than as a good teammate, especially in solo play. Too many people also look for personal "glory" and improving their own stats over helping their team. I've seen matches turned around because of one person selflessly sacrificing themselves to buy the team time. I've also seen matches lost because someone ditched the team for personal glory rather than supporting their allies. (Same in reverse too, so there is that as well.)


Overall, what weapons you decide to use is up to you and the play style you are wishing to use. It's all a matter of what you want out of your mech and to get out of this game.

#28 Brethren

    Member

  • PipPipPip
  • 92 posts

Posted 24 September 2018 - 11:36 PM

I usually don't promote, but the following video by Molten Metal is a pretty good example on how to use LRMs. It even features the mentioned Trebuchet. ;)



#29 Horseman

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Ace Of Spades
  • Ace Of Spades
  • 2,733 posts
  • LocationPoland

Posted 25 September 2018 - 06:21 AM

Quote

BAP (...) disables a single enemy ECM unit nearby,
And that's actually important - that single ECM would prevent you from locking targets while its' carrier is up close.

#30 Tesunie

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The Seeker
  • The Seeker
  • 8,411 posts
  • LocationSeraphim HQ: Asuncion

Posted 25 September 2018 - 07:05 AM

View PostHorseman, on 25 September 2018 - 06:21 AM, said:

And that's actually important - that single ECM would prevent you from locking targets while its' carrier is up close.


That is the reason to take BAP with LRMs. A lot of people think it's because of "targeting gain time boost" somehow relates to "faster lock on speeds with missiles". It's something I'm constantly having to correct.

(Personally, I like taking direct fire weapons with my LRMs over TAG and BAP. But that's my preference more than anything else.)

#31 Barkem Squirrel

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The Bowman
  • The Bowman
  • 1,080 posts
  • LocationEarth.

Posted 25 September 2018 - 10:00 AM

I had my nova cat out a few weeks ago and noticed the light on seismic behind me with ECM and could still keep locks with CAP. Then I started to get low signal, so popped the UAV and turned to see an arctic cheetah and a locust. I wonder what went through the pirates banes mind as the first of the SSRM's nailed him. The sad part was he ran away and 60 LRMs and the 12 SSRM's nailed him. The cheetah decided as soon as he saw the SSRMs to run, and that is what saved him. For some reason even though I play up front LRM support. Sure being in front of the brawlers is fun as a LRM boat, I still think seismic is a good node for LRM boats with all these pesky lights running around and having some SRM's, SSRM's or lasers to back up the LRMs.

Then last weekend I had a mech (Nova S) with 3 AMS with one being for a Laser run out on it's own get caught out in the open on frozen city by a LRM 40 maddog (me) and just got toasted in more ways than one. Sure 10 ERMLs is fun, but not when I can sit at 500 m and rain on your parade. Then the L AMS, hum, he shut down and I just keep on raining on him with dead fire. The poor guy disconnected a few second before I killed him.

Now the 7M treb, it is a solid mech, just slow 64 kph for my build. TAG is a must, but maybe run NARC in the Left arm with two LRM 10s. Still the TAG is too good not to have. Artemis, right now with the weight limitations, no. The best part of the Treb, LRM poptarting. The same with the griffins.

#32 Tesunie

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The Seeker
  • The Seeker
  • 8,411 posts
  • LocationSeraphim HQ: Asuncion

Posted 25 September 2018 - 05:04 PM

View PostBarkem Squirrel, on 25 September 2018 - 10:00 AM, said:

I had my nova cat out a few weeks ago and noticed the light on seismic behind me with ECM and could still keep locks with CAP. Then I started to get low signal, so popped the UAV and turned to see an arctic cheetah and a locust. I wonder what went through the pirates banes mind as the first of the SSRM's nailed him. The sad part was he ran away and 60 LRMs and the 12 SSRM's nailed him. The cheetah decided as soon as he saw the SSRMs to run, and that is what saved him. For some reason even though I play up front LRM support. Sure being in front of the brawlers is fun as a LRM boat, I still think seismic is a good node for LRM boats with all these pesky lights running around and having some SRM's, SSRM's or lasers to back up the LRMs.


On the notation of Seismic, when I originally wrote this guide up seismic was a module you had to equip, in a very limited number of slots. Back then, it was more work investing in Adv Target Decay over Seismic, because it was either one or the other. Now? Now I agree with you about Seismic's usefulness.

On the note of SSRMs, AP and ECM... I'm curious as to how your UAV helped you use SSRMs against a dual ECM tag team. CAP would disable one of them (letting you continue to get locks). The second ECM on you should have disabled your targeting systems, preventing missile locks. The UAV shouldn't have helped in that situation, unless one of the two ECM carriers moved outside their influence range permitting your AP to disable the closest (the one that would have disabled your missile locking system), permitting you to get a missile lock for your SSRMs...

#33 Barkem Squirrel

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The Bowman
  • The Bowman
  • 1,080 posts
  • LocationEarth.

Posted 26 September 2018 - 05:50 AM

View PostTesunie, on 25 September 2018 - 05:04 PM, said:


On the notation of Seismic, when I originally wrote this guide up seismic was a module you had to equip, in a very limited number of slots. Back then, it was more work investing in Adv Target Decay over Seismic, because it was either one or the other. Now? Now I agree with you about Seismic's usefulness.

On the note of SSRMs, AP and ECM... I'm curious as to how your UAV helped you use SSRMs against a dual ECM tag team. CAP would disable one of them (letting you continue to get locks). The second ECM on you should have disabled your targeting systems, preventing missile locks. The UAV shouldn't have helped in that situation, unless one of the two ECM carriers moved outside their influence range permitting your AP to disable the closest (the one that would have disabled your missile locking system), permitting you to get a missile lock for your SSRMs...


I have never really looked at that. All I know is when ganged up by ECM I always launch a UAV and it always lets me get targeting. My unit did a test, god years ago now where the buggers jumped into ECM commandos just to get me alone when we were dropping 4 v 4. I was still able to get one of them. The other problem I have is I am normally in front of the heavies and assaults, but maybe behind the lights initially. Go figure as to why no one wants to charge a LRM boat with the brawlers right behind him. I know it is not the normal LRM from behind, but it works like a charm, LRMing from the front.

So I really do not have too many issues with lights getting behind me.

Edited by Barkem Squirrel, 26 September 2018 - 05:51 AM.


#34 Tesunie

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The Seeker
  • The Seeker
  • 8,411 posts
  • LocationSeraphim HQ: Asuncion

Posted 26 September 2018 - 07:03 AM

View PostBarkem Squirrel, on 26 September 2018 - 05:50 AM, said:


I have never really looked at that. All I know is when ganged up by ECM I always launch a UAV and it always lets me get targeting. My unit did a test, god years ago now where the buggers jumped into ECM commandos just to get me alone when we were dropping 4 v 4. I was still able to get one of them. The other problem I have is I am normally in front of the heavies and assaults, but maybe behind the lights initially. Go figure as to why no one wants to charge a LRM boat with the brawlers right behind him. I know it is not the normal LRM from behind, but it works like a charm, LRMing from the front.

So I really do not have too many issues with lights getting behind me.


Oh, I too LRM from the front. It's far more helpful to the team to remain with them, rather than behind them. I may not typically get the "click and 1000+ damage" matches everyone else says they can do with LRMs by hiding in the back (those that refute LRMs saying they are bad), but my results tend to be more helpful to the team as a whole in my opinion.

My only question with your situation is that UAVs don't disable ECM, it only cuts through it like TAG does. If, for ease of example, you had a TAG and they had an ECM (no AP) and they got too close to you, if you TAG them it wouldn't help you as your missile locking system is shut down. Same should be for UAVs, so I'm not sure how you would be getting locks for your SSRMs at that point. One of the two much be running outside their ECM influence range for your SSRMs to be getting locks. Then again when that range is, what, 90m it's really easy to run out of it and not realize it... Either that or you had another ally with an AP close enough so neither opponent's ECM was active.

#35 Mechwarrior 37

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 174 posts

Posted 21 January 2019 - 09:34 AM

I like the new LRM ideas because I like to run "Assault LRMers". If they come through you will need to rewrite this again, lol.

I will often mix LRMs with ATMs or Streaks, SRMs, MRM with lasers.

I've been on testing grounds and if you are straight up with a mech, you can kill it much faster now using missiles.

Edited by Mechwarrior 37, 21 January 2019 - 09:36 AM.


#36 Male Sheep

    Rookie

  • Survivor
  • 1 posts

Posted 07 June 2019 - 04:25 AM

Great guide.

My 2 cents;

I have bought a warhammer 7R a while back and after a change of my initial custom build I came up with this.
2 erpp's
4 er small lasers (torso's)
3 lrm5's with 3 tons of ammo
Double heatsinks and a light 300 (69 kph)
(not everything is mentioned here because I dont remember everything I changed... :P)

This is a really fun if a bit hot build. The lrm's are there to provide covering fire to your (teams) advance or to pelt some mech with continuous lrm fire. I tend to use a firegroup with chainfire and a group with group fire. This has worked out well for me.

This is an example of how lrm's can be really usefull.

I like long range missiles and I tend to favour mechs that have missile hardpoints over ballistic hardpoints... But I dont build pure lrm boats. I dont really believe in them. Powerfull yes, but also very vulnerable at the same time. My advice, always put some backup weapons on your lrm mech.

Greetings.

#37 Eurystheus

    Member

  • PipPipPip
  • The Grizzly
  • The Grizzly
  • 86 posts

Posted 28 August 2019 - 11:33 AM

I have some observations since the last changes to missile behavior. Now, AMS is more effective when you don't have LOS, but less effective if you do.

In my experience, LRMs, with the lower arc, now do more damage (more hits maybe?) when you have LOS. For me, it makes it worthwhile to expose myself to get a LOS lock.

I think it's great when my team mates get locks for me, but I don't feel comfortable asking them to increase their risk for my benefit. If they are getting locks, great! If not, I'll take the risk and get my own. But I do ask, when they are engaged with an enemy, to press the R key, since they are there anyway.

#38 Mechwarrior 37

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 174 posts

Posted 07 November 2019 - 09:05 AM

Blame it on the rain thats falling.....

Posted Image

Posted Image

Posted Image

Posted Image

Edited by Mechwarrior 37, 07 November 2019 - 09:06 AM.


#39 Sebastyan Black

    Member

  • Pip
  • Knight Errant
  • 19 posts

Posted 03 December 2019 - 02:08 AM

The question is... Can you repeat it on other maps too?





2 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 2 guests, 0 anonymous users