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Building A New Pc... Ideas?


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#21 Saxophonist

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Posted 02 July 2013 - 03:32 PM

View PostVincent Vascaul, on 02 July 2013 - 11:58 AM, said:

Sorry cata I didnt make it clear on mine, some of the parts were advised for multi some for single. 3930K can be had for around 400 if you know where to look, a Asus Deluxe Mobo and your on your way. Also I just found out from EVGA that there will not be a 6gb GTX 780 since it would crush the titan so Nvidia wont let them.

Edit:BTW Cata, you ever on the NGNG TS3 server?

Please, enlighten me where I could acquire a 3930K for $400.

#22 Lucilius

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Posted 02 July 2013 - 06:11 PM

View Posttorgian, on 22 June 2013 - 10:51 AM, said:

Hey everyone.

So my desktop, after about 5 years of faithful service, is starting to die. Video card is the main culprit, it's starting to fail on the hardware side, if not software. I have an NVIDIA 8800GTS.

I did think about just upgrading the video card, but decided that I might as well build a brand new desktop.

So... I've been out of the loop tech-wise for the past several years. What are the new products that came out? I heard that Intel is making boards with soldered CPUs, instead of CPUs you can swap out in the future for upgradability. Is this true?

Please inform me. I'm thinking my budget is gonna be around 2-3000 for a new build, and yes I do build my own computers, just need help with ideas on what parts/accessories i should look into, as well as future upgradeability.

Prepare to experience at least some incompatibilities with software and/or hardware.

#23 Catamount

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Posted 02 July 2013 - 06:48 PM

View PostVincent Vascaul, on 02 July 2013 - 11:58 AM, said:

Edit:BTW Cata, you ever on the NGNG TS3 server?


I certainly can be ;)
What times are you typically on, and what unit are you with?

Also, post the whole build up that you're suggesting, so we can get a look at it

Edited by Catamount, 02 July 2013 - 08:13 PM.


#24 Barbaric Soul

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Posted 03 July 2013 - 03:35 AM

here's my recommendation. it's basically the same as my current computer, but with less expensive newer parts(going with exactly what I have would cost just over $3100)

http://pcpartpicker.com/p/1cON5


and just for shats and giggles, this is exactly what I have

http://pcpartpicker.com/p/1cOQ3 in this case- http://www.newegg.co...N82E16811112055

#25 torgian

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Posted 03 July 2013 - 12:55 PM

Allright, so I took some time and looked over everyone's recommendations and built a system that I think combines most everything.

It went over my 3k mark, but it is what it is! :)

Please give me insight and recommended changes. I'm still a bit ignorant about the CPUs and motherboards.

http://pcpartpicker....or11/saved/1Th0

Also, I want to go watercooling this time, but don't know what to get or what other fans I'll need.

Edited by torgian, 03 July 2013 - 01:07 PM.


#26 Barbaric Soul

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Posted 03 July 2013 - 04:07 PM

CPU- to much processor for what I understand the computer's main use will be. I honestly think you would be better off with either a socket 1155 3770k or socket 1150 4770k system.

Motherboard- Do you really need a $370 motherboard? Will you actually use all the little extra features that board has?

Video cards- SLI GTX770 cards are total overkill/waste on a single 1080p monitor

Soundcard- unless your going to be hooking up some kind of higher end surround sound system, save your money and use the on board sound. On board sound has come a long way over the past couple years.

#27 torgian

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Posted 03 July 2013 - 05:21 PM

Thanks a lot for your input, i appreciate it.

#28 Dragoon20005

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Posted 03 July 2013 - 05:33 PM

edit you build Torgian

http://pcpartpicker.com/p/1d35z

a single HD7970 can power 3 monitors and it is still just 3k

#29 zinetwin

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Posted 03 July 2013 - 06:09 PM

I strongly recommend checking out benchmarks and overall reviews for whatever products you intend on purchasing.
Anandtech has a pretty good breakdown that they keep mostly updated:
http://www.anandtech.com/bench/
PCper used to have one I think, and the ones at Toms are way old.
The biggest thing is figuring out which applications you will be using and how you will be using the machine overall. For instance if you're running photoshop CS2, then your GPU won't get leveraged nearly enough to warrant a $1000 GPU. Blender and 3dSmax both can use CUDA or opencl for GPU assisted loads. You should factor in the cost of hte software as well in your purchasing decisions since that crap ain't cheap and no-one can really suggest "acquiring it".
If you're going for a whole new build I wouldn't even worry about an optical drive. If you really need one then get a $20 usb one and be done with it. Unless you want to watch blu-ray in which case you'll need the drive, and software to actually make it work. If I recall the only one that isn't a big pile of crap is TotalMedia Theater and that's like $100 bucks. You could use anydvd to strip the DRM and then play it in VLC but that's around $80 I think. At least until someone figures out how to actually use that "master key" they found a year or so ago and decrypt all of the BD disks like everything can do with DVD now.
For all intents and purposes SSD's are for ACTIVE DATA only. This means your OS and applications. They're not meant for overall storage yet, as is reflected in the price. If you want 1TB of storage then you either RAID identical SSD's together or get a pre-built PCIE card for about $3000, which is basically just a bunch of flash and controllers RAIDed together with a warranty. HDDs are so cheap that you should just buy a bunch of them if you need storage. Especially if you plan on doing rendering work which can easily eat up tons of space. Get a decent RAID card from Areca, and throw 4x2TB WD REB or enterprise drives in it and be done. You could also get a nas, but one that offers any real throughput gets close to $800.
Look at it practically. If you're playing MWO, what's the point of having the fastest SSD there? You load in 1 second, only to have to wait another 30 for the rest of the players and the match to start. Almost all SSD's are going to be leaps and bounds ahead of HDD's so get a decent one but don't spend over $300 for one.
Get a case you like and that's well-built and most importantly will contain all of the components you are getting. Most people make the mistake of getting a case that's just not long enough and can't stuff their monstrous GPU into it. You also need to figure out all of the components before picking the case so that you can make sure you have adequate airflow to keep all components cool. HDD's don't like running at 100F any more than your CPU does (GPU's don't count since they always run really hot).
If you don't need ridiculous CPU performance, get an AMD chip. You'll get decent performance for half the money. They're certainly not the best, but they are the best value and you can run any new title at max settings with a high-end GPU and a $200+ CPU. If you're doing workstation work, CORES are the gamechanger there so get as many cores as you can within the budget.
At least 16GB of ram if you're going to be rendering anything with modern software. Get the fastest that's not from some crappy chinese off-brand.
I would go with an IPS monitor just as a given since there's no reason not too anymore. I forget the name but some Korean company was making them at really low prices and the quality is way up there so I would dig around.
Consider spending some of that money on peripherals like a nice set of headphones, mouse, keyboard, etc...

Check out some of the tech sites like:
http://www.anandtech.com/rss
http://arstechnica.com/
http://www.tomshardware.com/
http://feeds.gawker.com/gizmodo/full
http://www.tweaktown.com/
http://www.pcper.com/
http://www.engadget.com/

If you want the best, $3000 will get you most of the way. I just don't think you need to spend that much to get the same effect unless you want bragging rights which only last for a month or two until the next new tech comes out.

Edited by zinetwin, 03 July 2013 - 06:28 PM.


#30 Catamount

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Posted 03 July 2013 - 07:50 PM

Alright, OP, you're getting bombarded with feedback here and I think it's dancing around the question of importance here, lots of contextless information, and nothing to do with it, so let's discuss the philosophy of use here. What are you actually trying to accomplish with this machine?


A gaming machine will be competent at artistic work, and an artistic powerhouse will be competent at gaming, but you can't focus on both, not on a 3k budget, and you shouldn't try to halfass somewhere between them, either.



Do you want the best gaming machine that does artwork as a secondary function, or the reverse? If you want a gaming machine, then at your budget, you're looking at a triple 1080P monitor setup, heavy GPU focus, and only moderate CPU focus.


First, let's start with some more general Dos and Don'ts for ALL systems you might consider:

-You do not need water cooling, plain and simple. Water cooling is either for overclocking or silent operation, and you haven't indicated such a preference for silence, that you're willing to spend hundreds of dollars placing everything on a liquid loop so that you can remove almost all the fans from everything but the radiator.

-You do not, under any circumstance, need DDR3-2400 RAM. RAM past DDR3-1600 is valuable when you're running a low end system with an APU, because the integrated GPU will bottleneck on the system RAM, so you try to minimize that bottleneck. Beyond APUs, however, even DDR3-1333 will not meaningfully bottleneck your system, let alone DDR3-1600.

-You do not need a dedicated sound card, let alone a $129 one. Intregrated soundcards provide high quality sound these days that is far past sufficient for gaming or casual music or movie use. The only reason to get a dedicated soundcard is for surround on headphones (CMSS3D or Dolby Headphone) and it looks like Razer might have free software that can do that now. Even then, a $25 soundcard can do surround processing. The only reason to get an expensive sound card is for an amplified sound output for high end sound equipment and sound far beyond your needs for hardcore audiophile applications.

-You don't need aftermarket coolers or thermal compound; you're not overclocking, so stock equipment is fine, thermally.

-If you're going to get a 7200RPM hard drive for bulk storage, may as well make it a Western Digital Caviar Black; they have higher random read/write speeds than other consumer 7200rpm drives.



Let's go over the options here for specific types of machines and what you're getting into with each:


1.) Top End Gaming Machine

A single 7970 (or 770, or 780, or Titan) will NOT competently do gaming across three 1080P monitors, plain and simple. This is not my personal judgement; this is citable fact (source). A single GPU is simply not fast enough to deliver consistently good framerates across intensive games according to the cited testing, and that testing was only with three 1680x1050 monitors! Three 1080P monitors would be 18% higher resolution.

With two GPUs, and three monitors, however, you cannot afford the 3930k by any means that I'm aware of.

In short, for a triple monitor gaming machine, you're left at exactly the machine I recommended, with the 4770k and the two 770s. Any more focus on the CPU, and you either can't afford a GPU setup to allow it, or you'll run up short on budget for screens. For this machine I'd get the three 1080P IPS displays I recommended, so you can keep color accuracy for the artwork. If you went really cheap on the screens, you might be able to still get the 3930k, but it wouldn't be good for artistic work.


2.) Top end Art Machine (single monitor)

A 4770k will not be slow at rendering, or any other task, not by any stretch of the imagination. It is an extremely fast CPU. It's just that there are CPUs that are, in the practical sense, a little bit faster. So if your goal is to squeeze every spare second out of every rendering job as the first and foremost concern, get the 3930k, and pair it with a single OCed Radeon HD 7970 or GHZ Edition or a Geforce GTX 770 (the two are basically interchangeable, though AMD's game bundle is better), and a single 2560x1440 or 1560x1600 IPS panel display, something like Barbaric Soul's 30". Toss in a decent power supply in the 500-600W range and call it a day.


3.) Single Monitor Gaming Machine

If this is all you want, then my advice is simple: don't spend $3000. Get an i5 3570k, go with the single 7970 or 770 again, get 8GB of RAM, an Asrock Z77 Extreme 4, toss it into a Zalman Z11 mid tower with a Rosewill Hive 550W power supply, get a nice 27" or 30" IPS panel (still 1440p or 1600p) to do the art stuff on the side, and call it a day. You could probably get away with not much more than $2000, it'll cream games, and it'll still be quite fast at any kind of artwork.

I'd put this together in partpicker, but work has been long, and I'm tired :rolleyes:



Anyways, give thought to what you actually want. Advice telling you to buy this, or buy that, isn't useful if it's not tailored to your specific philosophy of use. There's a set of three types of machines, and the kind of setup that would be ideal for each, that you can fit into your budget. There's always room for tweaking, since these machines are merely general outlines, but they're the kind of setup that's ideal for each machine type.

Edited by Catamount, 03 July 2013 - 08:00 PM.


#31 Dragoon20005

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Posted 03 July 2013 - 11:00 PM

well based on Catamount suggestion on the builds functions

i have summoned 4 likely build which follows his suggestion of parts

Top end gaming machine on 3 screens

Intel i7 4770K with GTX770 SLi

http://pcpartpicker.com/p/1d88J


Top End Gaming AMD option

AMD FX8350 with HD7950 2 way X-Fire

http://pcpartpicker.com/p/1d84l


Top end Art machine with 30" HP monitor

http://pcpartpicker.com/p/1d8kn

Single Monitor gaming machine

http://pcpartpicker.com/p/1d8jg

#32 Smokeyjedi

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Posted 04 July 2013 - 04:12 AM

These 2 posters above me are onto something.........This is solid......

#33 Oderint dum Metuant

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Posted 04 July 2013 - 09:29 AM

View PostCatamount, on 03 July 2013 - 07:50 PM, said:

1.) Top End Gaming Machine

A single 7970 (or 770, or 780, or Titan) will NOT competently do gaming across three 1080P monitors, plain and simple. This is not my personal judgement; this is citable fact (source). A single GPU is simply not fast enough to deliver consistently good framerates across intensive games according to the cited testing, and that testing was only with three 1680x1050 monitors! Three 1080P monitors would be 18% higher resolution.

With two GPUs, and three monitors, however, you cannot afford the 3930k by any means that I'm aware of.

In short, for a triple monitor gaming machine, you're left at exactly the machine I recommended, with the 4770k and the two 770s. Any more focus on the CPU, and you either can't afford a GPU setup to allow it, or you'll run up short on budget for screens. For this machine I'd get the three 1080P IPS displays I recommended, so you can keep color accuracy for the artwork. If you went really cheap on the screens, you might be able to still get the 3930k, but it wouldn't be good for artistic work.


A single titan will play MWO even in its broken state at around 50-55FPS across three screens, and that is while recording, so a 780 shouldn't be far behind.

Edited by DV McKenna, 04 July 2013 - 09:38 AM.


#34 Dragoon20005

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Posted 04 July 2013 - 05:26 PM

correction the GTX Titan's fps will be stable if you don't max out all your settings with 3 monitors

http://www.extremete...ad-at-5760x1080

and also it depends on the game played


but hey if you could afford 3 monitors, makes more sense to go SLi or X-Fire to game

#35 Catamount

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Posted 04 July 2013 - 06:25 PM

View PostDV McKenna, on 04 July 2013 - 09:29 AM, said:


A single titan will play MWO even in its broken state at around 50-55FPS across three screens, and that is while recording, so a 780 shouldn't be far behind.


If all you ever want to play is MWO in DX9, then sure, a single Titan will be okay and a 780 would probably be okay if you weren't restricted to 3GB of VRAM, but MWO isn't a GPU-intensive game. My old 5850 could almost run the game on all high settings at 1080P! I doubt, however, that the OP intends to build a $3000 gaming computer just to play MWO, and as my above cited site shows, a 780 isn't even close to being able to play most current intensive games across even three 1680x1050 screens, let alone future titles, let alone across 1920x1080/1920x1200 screens.

That makes dual 770s make a lot more sense, especially since you get massively more bang for your buck skipping the GK110 in addition to near-double the flat performance of a single 780.

Edited by Catamount, 04 July 2013 - 06:27 PM.






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