14 replies to this topic

[bashpr0mpt]

I have been told that the training grounds:

• Is different to live play.
  
• Is running an older 'version' of the game.
  
• Calculates things differently.
  
• Has different hit boxes.
  
• Mechs don't have as much armor

Can you please tell me which of these are true or false? I have tested PPC's in the training grounds and killed every mech without difficulty POINT BLANK in the alleged 'dead zone' that PPC's are meant to have. I have also killed mechs within that dead zone in live games.

I recently mentioned this in a VOIP group and had two of the players claim the above, I called ********, but I have noticed that stuff dies far, far easier in the training grounds (but notably PPC 'dead zone' doesn't exist in live play as much as it doesn't exist in training grounds!)

Any input would be appreciated, please only reply if you can link to an official thread or document pointing out your view as opposed to anecdotes or first person experiences if you could?

[Edustaja]

Well the less armor part comes from the fact that they're straight from tabletop so the armor values have not been maxed as would be when you're building a mwo mech.

[Pale Horseman]

Can't really comment on the training grounds beyond what Edustaja mentioned, but the PPCs don't really have a dead zone, they just do less damage within 90m from the target (from 0 damage at 0m, to 5 damage at 45m and full damage at 90m). And ERPPCs don't have a dead zone at all.

[Redshift2k5]

It is not an "older" version, but the key is the training ground is not server authoritative. It skips all the checks where normally an action is sent on a round-trip to the server for verification. "Calculating things differently" is certainly true.

Certain things act very differently on training grounds.

It is not useful for testing specific items (such as hit detection). It's primary purpose is for new players to learn to drive a mech without being obliterated by PPCs, and despite it's shortcomings it performs that task very well.

Mechs are all stock armor, go shot the training dummy Atlas and it will take quite a beating, but many of the rest have inferior armor due to being stock.

Also please note PPCs don't have a "dead zone". The damage below 90 meters scales with distance, so at 45 meters(half the distance) it will do half damage, and at 1/4 the distance it will do 1/4 the damage, etc

[Redshift2k5]

A good acid test is the Catapult A1's arms- They have exactly 40 armor. Shoot them from the rear or sides (the front have missile bay door covers which infer a 10% damage reduction!) and you can see that applying 40 damage will strip it's armor quite cleanly. From this we can see that the training ground has no funny business with "less armor", but is simply stock armor.

[Genewen]

Another difference between Training Grounds and actual combat is that mech unlocks don't work there. A mech that you already mastered will feel quite different in the Training Grounds due to this.

[scJazz]

Things that do not work in Training Ground

Modules
Mech Efficiencies
Artemis

Things I'm pretty sure do not work in Training Ground
TAG
NARC
Missile behavior in general is not up to date

A new working Training Ground is in the pipeline already so this should be fixed Soon ™

[Cache]

Redshift2k5, on 22 June 2013 - 05:02 AM, said:

(the front have missile bay door covers which infer a 10% damage reduction!)

My understanding is that bay doors do not give an armor or internal structure damage reduction, but a 10% resistance to component critical damage (once armor is gone).

http://mwomercs.com/...ost__p__1788620

Edited by Cache, 22 June 2013 - 01:38 PM.

[bashpr0mpt]

Thank you so much for the many replies! Although the problem is this is again just a lot of opinions, I get a lot of those on VOIP, as the skeptic (ie: I've been cored point blank and cored point blank with PPC's so I KNOW that there's no 'dead zone' at all (and I don't use ER PPC's due to heat)) I was hoping to dig up some solid proof.

It's good to know the training ground isn't mystically different, because I too have emulated the math of 4 PPC's ripping 40 armor off parts, etc. (well, I used a 60 example personally), but have been told time and time again by multiple people that I'm an ***** and that it uses an 'old version' of the game and is entirely 'wrong' because it is local and not on a server (which I can't really see changing the actual game mechanics besides adding a bit of lag?).

An issue I'd still love some feedback on is the hitbox bug. I personally have put 300+ SRM's into a spider and seen explosions and even had him overheat and absolutely PUMMELED the little creep to death with SRM's and he was still at 99% health the entire time. I was told this is 'netcode' and 'hitbox bug' causing it?

So besides the above, can anyone provide any links about no PPC dead zone, no difference in testing grounds?

The DEVS should be the one providing the solid figures on this stuff but unfortunately 100% of learning and game mechanics I have read is thanks to awesome players who put in the time and effort to decode the mystic back end of the lazy *** devs who can't be arsed giving the players some detailed information, which makes me excessively bitter as a consumer I must add.

But this does amplify my appreciation to those who have replied and will reply to this thread; I hope you all realize you're helping contribute to a compendium of regurgitated data that'll probably be many other players main tome of knowledge, and for this I thank you!

[IraqiWalker]

The PPC dead zone exists, in live matches better than in the testing grounds.

See, the testing grounds exists for two reasons:
1- for you to drive around in your mech and learn how to pilot it.
2- it gives you some mechs for you to shoot at. It doesn't matter how well you shoot them, all that matters is you learn shooting them.

Testing grounds are different because there is no server communication, so your point about lag is incorrect. the grounds are cut off from the server once the map starts and you deploy, all calculations are done on your side.

If you want to look up the info on the testing grounds you can probably find it in the ask the devs threads, and some of the other command chair posts they have made about this topic.


You can also post inquiries and questions to Ask the Devs threads, available every other weekend pretty much.

[scJazz]

scJazz, on 22 June 2013 - 06:05 AM, said:

Things that do not work in Training Ground

Modules
Mech Efficiencies
Artemis

Things I'm pretty sure do not work in Training Ground
TAG
NARC
Missile behavior in general is not up to date

A new working Training Ground is in the pipeline already so this should be fixed Soon ™

The above isn't an opinion... they are facts where I state a declarative... probabilities where I leave the possibility open to being wrong.

[Edustaja]

Cache, on 22 June 2013 - 01:36 PM, said:

My understanding is that bay doors do not give an armor or internal structure damage reduction, but a 10% resistance to component critical damage (once armor is gone).

http://mwomercs.com/...ost__p__1788620s

Devs refer to torso/arm sections as "components" so what he actually said means that there is a 10 % damage reduction to the section for both armor and internals from weapons fire or ammo explosions. I don't know why they keep doing this as it's very confusing.
Eg. an arm is a component while a medium laser is not, same with the "component destruction bonus" you get the bonus by destroying a section of the mech, not the internal parts.

[GTV Zeratul]

scJazz's post IS correct. About the PPC's, I've seen someone mention that MAYBE they have accedently switched the min. range of the PPC and ERPPC during the last patch.
I don't know if this is true or not but it does seem like it. I've seen ERPPC's do 0 damage at point-blank range while PPC's deliver full damage.

[Cache]

Edustaja, on 23 June 2013 - 11:01 PM, said:

Devs refer to torso/arm sections as "components" so what he actually said means that there is a 10 % damage reduction to the section for both armor and internals from weapons fire or ammo explosions. I don't know why they keep doing this as it's very confusing.
Eg. an arm is a component while a medium laser is not, same with the "component destruction bonus" you get the bonus by destroying a section of the mech, not the internal parts.

I have never seen sections referred to as components. I have received multiple "component destruction" bonuses on numerous occasions by destroying a single section. This implies that the components are the weapons, heat sinks, and other equipment in a location. I guess a more detailed clarification from the devs would be helpful.

[Koniving]

I'm sort of late to this party but I will tell you this: The Training Grounds will be very different from online play, as among other things it will feature a switch to a third person camera to help teach you how to play.

I'm afraid you're referring to the Testing Grounds. Most already assumed that, though, so you got your answers.