14 replies to this topic

[BaconFat]

I think that the lack of progression and lack of 'endgame' tiering is the cause. The so called ELO rating is failing...matches are bad. There needs to be a way as in tanks to separate the new from the established players for the sake of sanity. Tanks pub battles are bad enough but at least there is some separation there with the tier system, if I jump in a Tier 10 hvy I know that the majority of people I will be playing with/against have all put in a good amount of time in the game. In MWo apparently I can download the game and within in seconds buy with MC a relevant mech (cannot buy top tier tanks in wot). Not only a relevant but ones but P2W ones such as Misery...which btw is most definatley a P2W mech.

[Deathlike]

There is no P2W mech. The reality is most of those mechs aren't that much better than the variants that have been labeled superior to it.

Misery can be beaten by a 3F or 5S or 5M. So bleh.

If if you're talking about "lack of progression or endgame".. I'm pretty sure most people will agree with you there.

Otherwise... most of your post is blaming the MM/ELO system, which is part of a larger problem...

[Theodor Kling]

This might add to it, but I think the lack of ingame voice is more severe. Coordination of a team just by text is taking way too long. Scouting and telling the team where the enemy is also takes too long.. and might be fatal, since you run in a straight line when typing. So you scout, get of a grid number at most, then stop typing evading incoming fire, or simply buildings. You might take the time to tell your team about enemy disposition too.. and die most likely.
I have seen a few pugs where coordination did happen ( mostly on the bigger maps, because you got more time for it before the shooting starts). But mostly PUGs in MWO coordinate by instinct and telepathy. Not the most efficient way to do so
Even that sometimes works, especially with spontaniously forming a pack to hunt enemy snipers ( or in former days LRM boats)
But ingame voice is needed. But alas, fro waht i gathered the davs got something planned for that ( as usual, no details of any kind given)

[Gaan Cathal]

OP is well thought out, well presented, in depth argument that contributes new information and avenues of discussion to this subforum.

[BaconFat]

Deathlike, on 22 June 2013 - 10:25 PM, said:

There is no P2W mech. The reality is most of those mechs aren't that much better than the variants that have been labeled superior to it.

Misery can be beaten by a 3F or 5S or 5M. So bleh.

Or any other mech for that matter, not saying its the most op. I am saying its endgame relevant, any first day noob can buy and can only be obtained by $$$. Much like gold ammo in wot of which the game did in time acknowledge and change to be purchasable by $$$ or ingame credits, at a very high rate but available none the less. Either way, its not the main point I was looking to make. The progression or lack thereof is what I was emphasizing.

[LordBraxton]

grinding for seismic wall-hacks is endgame

what a great feature

[RG Notch]

BaconFat, on 22 June 2013 - 08:35 PM, said:

I think that the lack of progression and lack of 'endgame' tiering is the cause. The so called ELO rating is failing...matches are bad. There needs to be a way as in tanks to separate the new from the established players for the sake of sanity. Tanks pub battles are bad enough but at least there is some separation there with the tier system, if I jump in a Tier 10 hvy I know that the majority of people I will be playing with/against have all put in a good amount of time in the game. In MWo apparently I can download the game and within in seconds buy with MC a relevant mech (cannot buy top tier tanks in wot). Not only a relevant but ones but P2W ones such as Misery...which btw is most definatley a P2W mech.

Wow if you think Misery is P2W then maybe you're not as good as you think. Actually, no maybe about it. First day noobs may think it's P2W though....

[Victor Morson]

BaconFat, on 22 June 2013 - 08:35 PM, said:

Not only a relevant but ones but P2W ones such as Misery...which btw is most definatley a P2W mech.

The Misery is not better than the Highlander 732 or a regular Stalker with 4 PPCs. It's different, that's all.

That said, tiering the ELO would probably be a better way to handle it than they have now. The amount of poor newbies in trial 'mechs that get thrown head-first into clashes between multiple groups of 4 is just painful.

[Nauht]

A good pilot will adapt to the circumstances and compensate for his team, not blame them.

You know exactly what you're getting into when you click Launch instead of Ready.

Besides it's all about how you pilot your mech. I pug exclusively as the gamers I know are console boys but am still sitting above 2.0 kdr overall with slightly more wins that losses but that's about even. To me ELO is working otherwise my w/l ratio would be skewed to losses.

Oh and about P2W mechs. Every hero mech has been confirmed by us, the players, as a sideways upgrade rather than a full blwon superior mech.

But if it helps ease the hurt, think whatever you like.

[Deathlike]

BaconFat, on 23 June 2013 - 02:16 PM, said:

Or any other mech for that matter, not saying its the most op. I am saying its endgame relevant, any first day noob can buy and can only be obtained by $$$. Much like gold ammo in wot of which the game did in time acknowledge and change to be purchasable by $$$ or ingame credits, at a very high rate but available none the less. Either way, its not the main point I was looking to make. The progression or lack thereof is what I was emphasizing.

I wouldn't go that far. It'll help with the grinding when it comes to the bonus, on the other hand, most of them are not going to change things in the grand scheme of MWO.

Endgame relevance is what matters most to the upper level players notice. Very often, hero mechs are not involved in that... so... I'm not going to try to convince you otherwise.

Edited by Deathlike, 23 June 2013 - 05:06 PM.

[Syllogy]

Pro Tip: The Atlas RS can do more than the Misery, which means that the Misery is not a Pay 2 Win mech.

Pro Tip 2: Endgame is an ethereal construct that does not exist in MWO. There is only The Game.

[Mechteric]

Did you ever play MWO before Elo matchmaking? One thing sums up those matches: PUGSTOMP. I would say 80% of the games were absolutely no challenge whatsoever. I think now its relatively even compared to before, the problems aren't from Elo really, but from what Elo could be doing. Namely making sure low Elo players aren't anywhere in the same game as those with high Elo. Brackets or ladders or whatever you want to call it is my opinion of what is needed.

[Lostdragon]

Community Warfare is the endgame. Remember that a lot of major features are not in yet. They are supposed to launch by September 21 with 12v12, CW, and UI 2.0 in place by then.

In the past they have talked about epic equipment and things like that but I have not heard anything about it in a while. My guess is that is backburnered until they get some of the other big features in but the way they explained it was you would have a chance to get equipment from a specific manufacturer and it might have bonuses like 5% faster refire or 10% less heat. I think they also mentioned set bonuses once too. Personally I doubt we will see a loot system for a good long time but it could make the end game more interesting. Or it could be a disaster, we will see.

[Victor Morson]

Nauht, on 23 June 2013 - 04:14 PM, said:

A good pilot will adapt to the circumstances and compensate for his team, not blame them.

A good pilot brings a good design to the field in the first place, though, too. I'm sick of this excuse being used to try to justify horrendous 'mech builds.

The pilot is part of it, but come on. It's like if you gave two snipers guns - one a modern high powered sniper rifle with the latest heat seeking scopes, and the other a WWI era infantry weapon with iron sights - then tried to claim it was a fair fight because "A good sniper overcomes!" or some bunk.

CapperDeluxe, on 24 June 2013 - 05:59 AM, said:

Did you ever play MWO before Elo matchmaking? One thing sums up those matches: PUGSTOMP. I would say 80% of the games were absolutely no challenge whatsoever. I think now its relatively even compared to before, the problems aren't from Elo really, but from what Elo could be doing. Namely making sure low Elo players aren't anywhere in the same game as those with high Elo. Brackets or ladders or whatever you want to call it is my opinion of what is needed.

I totally agree you need brackets, not just a nebulous hidden number. ELO pretty clearly isn't working right now because I'm as likely to top players from A-grade units as I am trial 'mech first timers.

[MischiefSC]

Victor Morson, on 24 June 2013 - 06:43 AM, said:

A good pilot brings a good design to the field in the first place, though, too. I'm sick of this excuse being used to try to justify horrendous 'mech builds.

The pilot is part of it, but come on. It's like if you gave two snipers guns - one a modern high powered sniper rifle with the latest heat seeking scopes, and the other a WWI era infantry weapon with iron sights - then tried to claim it was a fair fight because "A good sniper overcomes!" or some bunk.



I totally agree you need brackets, not just a nebulous hidden number. ELO pretty clearly isn't working right now because I'm as likely to top players from A-grade units as I am trial 'mech first timers.

More likely you're playing someone who's gotten their Elo up in another mech in the same weight class dropping in a team to inflate their skill and is now trying to level up another mech. For example someone who just got a Highlander and is trying not to suck at it because they normally drop in a 6 PPC stalker with their buddies. They don't have a lot of actual skill at playing the game - they just use max cheese and teamspeak and skilled friends to win. Put them in a more individual skill mech build and suddenly they suck on ice.

Elo isn't broken. Elo is what keeps people from seeing just how utterly broken the games balance really is. You've just been spoiled by Elo so far - play a weight you normally never play (light, medium, whatever) and then watch. Most of your team has arms locked and is probably playing with a joystick. Almost everyone is terrible. Every single game is going to start with 1 or 2 people on each side charging in a straight line right into the other team at a run and dying.

It's why I'll never play mediums. I never did and now I never will - firstly, they all suck and are so badly shafted by balancing that when you start a match in a medium mech if you listen carefully you can barely hear PGI ******* on you from a great height. Second, entry level Elo makes me want to claw my own eyes out.