26 replies to this topic

[Acid Phase]

I'm curious to know where this term comes from and what exactly do you pilot that makes the term valid? And let's not talk about a team colaborative effort to take him down, because that is just isn't the case while pugging. Obviously there is no team effort there. So as an individual, what beast of a mech/loadout do you pilot to counter that? And please be honest. Cause I don't buy that BS thrown around here like "L2P and torso twist and stay as far back", otherwise I'm gonna have to start requesting video or it didn't happen.

[FrDrake]

AC40 jager, LRM boat, HGH alpha boat, all of them beat the jager when piloted with precision aiming, go for the side torso not the CT is my best advice to you. Last night I dueled some loaded to the teeth jager with my AC40 jager, I took out his RT while he worked on my CT, I lived, he died.

[Mechteric]

A glass cannon refers to a something that has powerful damage output (hence the cannon), but does't take much damage in return to destroy (hence the glass).

Typically something like a Gauss Catapult or XL engine based Gauss/AC20 Jager falls under this description. It doesn't necessarily mean it is light on armor in some cases in this game, but rather they have a weakness that is easy to exploit such as tender torsos with an XL on a Jager, or the exploding Gauss on a catapult's side torso.

Edited by CapperDeluxe, 24 June 2013 - 07:05 AM.

[Acid Phase]

FrDrake, on 24 June 2013 - 07:02 AM, said:

AC40 jager, LRM boat, HGH alpha boat, all of them beat the jager when piloted with precision aiming, go for the side torso not the CT is my best advice to you. Last night I dueled some loaded to the teeth jager with my AC40 jager, I took out his RT while he worked on my CT, I lived, he died.

.....ofcourse. Let's all pilot AC40 Jags....that'll do the trick. So it ends up being as Glass cannon to the one using the same build. Brilliant.

[El Bandito]

PPCs boats > all others, in pugs. Unfortunately.

[Lostdragon]

Acid Phase, on 24 June 2013 - 06:56 AM, said:

I'm curious to know where this term comes from and what exactly do you pilot that makes the term valid? And let's not talk about a team colaborative effort to take him down, because that is just isn't the case while pugging. Obviously there is no team effort there. So as an individual, what beast of a mech/loadout do you pilot to counter that? And please be honest. Cause I don't buy that BS thrown around here like "L2P and torso twist and stay as far back", otherwise I'm gonna have to start requesting video or it didn't happen.

Piloting any mech with Gauss and/or PPCs beating AC40 Jagers is trivial unless you let them sneak up on you and with Seismic that is a non issue. I don't have any problem with these in my CTF 3D, AWS 9M or HGN. Anything with range and a high alpha is a pretty hard counter to them.

In a light mech I flee for my life when I see one because in order to hurt them I have to get close enough for them to hit me full force. I only attack them if they are hurt and already engaged.

[Syllogy]

Most Jagers (but not all) have XL Engines. Stock armor = 34pts on each side torso up to ~60pts. Internal structure = 38pts

That means it will take between 72pts and 98pts of damage to destroy that torso. Even if he has a Standard engine, you will cripple at least half of his weapon systems.

To illustrate: 6ML Jenner = 30pt Alpha, between 3-4 Alpha strikes to the torso (ideally) to destroy the Jager, double that for twist and inaccuracy for 6-8 Alpha strikes.

8 Alpha strikes @ 4 seconds per shot = 32 seconds = Dead Jager.

If you attack from the back, 3 Alpha strikes = 12 seconds = Dead Jager.

[Acid Phase]

CapperDeluxe, on 24 June 2013 - 07:03 AM, said:

It doesn't necessarily mean it is light on armor in some cases in this game, but rather they have a weakness that is easy to exploit such as tender torsos with an XL on a Jager, or the exploding Gauss on a catapult's side torso.

Except that they don't always use XL engines. I've seen em used without it.

I'm waiting for someone to tell/show me how they took one out 1v1 without 6PPCs, Dual Guass, or another AC40 build.

[mindwarp]

Honestly, if a good pilot in an AC/40 Jager gets the drop on you, you're pretty much screwed. Your options are very limited. Best of all would to not be anywhere near him - awareness and positioning. Getting caught in tight corners like a street in a slow mech and the AC/40 will rip you to pieces. But this is rarely an option in PUG games. Targeting any mech that pops up to see if they're an AC/40 boat is a must since you can't rely on teammates to call it out. Hear that little bloop meaning a new contact has popped up? Lock it and hope you get info in time to see his load out. If there are AC/40 boats, make sure you maneuver and position yourself with that in mind. He wants/needs to get close undetected and unload into your back and since you'd don't have reliable team mates to watch your back in a pug, you need to use the terrain to cover your back. At range, the AC/40 boat just isn't that good. It's either slow, or packing an XL, and while the AC/40 Jager isn't exactly fragile, it does have huge side torsos and not a huge amount of armour there.

There's no build that anyone can offer as a hard counter to AC/40 Jags. Maybe another boomjag, but that just ends up being whichever one of you gets the shot first.

[Stat1cVoiD]

STK-3F.

[Syllogy]

Acid Phase, on 24 June 2013 - 07:10 AM, said:

Except that they don't always use XL engines. I've seen em used without it.

I'm waiting for someone to tell/show me how they took one out 1v1 without 6PPCs, Dual Guass, or another AC40 build.

I just did.

I'll even go a step further: Blackjack-1X w/ 8 Medium Lasers = 40pt Alpha

Attack Jager from the back, dead in under 5 seconds.

Edited by Syllogy, 24 June 2013 - 07:24 AM.

[Whompity]

Acid Phase, on 24 June 2013 - 07:10 AM, said:

I'm waiting for someone to tell/show me how they took one out 1v1 without 6PPCs, Dual Guass, or another AC40 build.

Sneak up on it and shoot it in the back. If the pilot seems good, when it STARTS to turn, run away to cover before it can get a bead on you. If the pilot seems bad, just stay behind him using your forward/reverse gears.* Rinse, repeat.

* I pilot lights.

Edited by Olivia Maybach, 24 June 2013 - 07:26 AM.

[FrDrake]

Acid Phase, on 24 June 2013 - 07:06 AM, said:

.....ofcourse. Let's all pilot AC40 Jags....that'll do the trick. So it ends up being as Glass cannon to the one using the same build. Brilliant.

So I give you 3 options, and you harp on the one you don't like. Go with the other two then?

[Shae Starfyre]

I've taken them out with my JJ Quick Draw with 4 Medium Pulse and two Streaks aiming for that side torso....but it's a hard win for me. Best done when they are concentrating on others.

[FrDrake]

Olivia Maybach, on 24 June 2013 - 07:25 AM, said:

Sneak up on it and shoot it in the back. If the pilot seems good, when it STARTS to turn, run away to cover before it can get a bead on you. If the pilot seems bad, just stay behind him using your forward/reverse gears.* Rinse, repeat.

* I pilot lights.

I played alot of AC40 jager over the weekend, lights are hard as hell to hit with the jagers arm weapons, they get too close to you and between the wonky HSR and the arm convergence you're lucky to land one AC20 round on them and end up wasting tons of ammo. I use my ML on lights that are too close and wait for them to make a mistake and stop or run perpendicular to me. There's your hard counter Acid, get in a JR7-F and go rip up some boomers.

[kesuga7]

Ac 40 jaggermechs are for wuss's

NOW the ac 40 cicada™ with 1 ton of armour and 14 shots is what A REAL PILOT USES

[Mechteric]

Acid Phase, on 24 June 2013 - 07:10 AM, said:

Except that they don't always use XL engines. I've seen em used without it.

True that, but generally you can take the chance they may have XL, and if they don't the at least they'll be down to only one AC20 and give you that much more of a chance to not die. Since you can easily hit a side torso even when they are twisted away from you its a good call to make.

Edited by CapperDeluxe, 24 June 2013 - 07:32 AM.

[Acid Phase]

Syllogy, on 24 June 2013 - 07:23 AM, said:

I just did.

I'll even go a step further: Blackjack-1X w/ 8 Medium Lasers = 40pt Alpha

Attack Jager from the back, dead in under 5 seconds.

Olivia Maybach, on 24 June 2013 - 07:25 AM, said:

Sneak up on it and shoot it in the back. If the pilot seems good, when it STARTS to turn, run away to cover before it can get a bead on you. If the pilot seems bad, just stay behind him using your forward/reverse gears.* Rinse, repeat.

* I pilot lights.

Very good insight guys. I would love to see that. Nothing makes me so satisfied than to see high alpha builds/cheese go down hard. But just think of a typical drop. Not everyone pilots lights in pugs. Poor mediums are f*cked in one shot. Heavys in 2-3, Assaults in 3-5. It's ridiculous. I see no drawback to that mech unless we get the drop on him first. That's rarely the case.

[AlexEss]

The way to beat a Glass-cannon is to find it's lest optimal range and then attack it from there. Seeing as there is no single one absolute version of a G-C Jaeger.

[SMDMadCow]

Acid Phase, on 24 June 2013 - 07:10 AM, said:

Except that they don't always use XL engines. I've seen em used without it.

I'm waiting for someone to tell/show me how they took one out 1v1 without 6PPCs, Dual Guass, or another AC40 build.

2 PPCs and a Gauss, 2 LL +2 ML and a Gauss, 4 AC5, AC20 +3 SRM6s, 2 LRM 15s and 3 MPLs, 2 MLs +2 aSRM6s.

You can pretty much do it in anything.