30 replies to this topic

[ManDaisy]

The act of feathering (Hitting you jumpjets periodically for lower powered more even boost) Seems very weak in this game. While I expect to be able to get big air and clear a chasm by feather my jumpjets, this is not the case, as I find the lack of upwards force cannot counteract your downwards accelerations once you start to drop. This also causes the problem with jumpjets no going anywhere if you happen to hit a small dip before you launch off the ground, for all your jumpjet fuel will just go and counteract that small downwards momentum.

Edited by ManDaisy, 24 June 2013 - 12:11 PM.

[El Bandito]

ManDaisy, on 24 June 2013 - 12:09 PM, said:

The act of feathering (Hitting you jumpjets periodically for lower powered more even boost) Seems very weak in this game. While I expect to be able to get big air and clear a chasm by feather my jumpjets, this is not the case, as I find the lack of upwards force cannot counteract your downwards accelerations once you start to drop. This also causes the problem with jumpjets no going anywhere if you happen to hit a small dip before you launch off the ground, for all your jumpjet fuel will just go and counteract that small downwards momentum.

But it's more realistic since falling multiple tons of metal should not be lifted up that easily. In the novels, once mechs are falling, your JJs can only help you to slow down the descending speed--it can never keep you hovering or lift you up. That is all it is designed to do in case of falling.

Edited by El Bandito, 24 June 2013 - 12:17 PM.

[ObsidianSpectre]

El Bandito, on 24 June 2013 - 12:13 PM, said:

But it's more realistic since falling multiple tons of metal should not be lifted up that easily.

...even by the things that lifted them up that easily in the first place?

Jumpjet physics always felt wonky to me in this game. It seems like they just lose most of their thrust the moment you stop rising.

Edited by ObsidianSpectre, 24 June 2013 - 12:16 PM.

[Otto Cannon]

ObsidianSpectre, on 24 June 2013 - 12:15 PM, said:

...even by the things that lifted them up that easily in the first place?

Jumpjet physics always felt wonky to me in this game. It seems like they just lose most of their thrust the moment you stop rising.

Yes. When they lift you in the first place it's from a standing start, but when falling they have to reverse the falling before they can even begin to start lifting again. It's accurate and feels exactly right.

Edited by Otto Cannon, 24 June 2013 - 12:19 PM.

[El Bandito]

ObsidianSpectre, on 24 June 2013 - 12:15 PM, said:

...even by the things that lifted them up that easily in the first place? Jumpjet physics always felt wonky to me in this game. It seems like they just lose most of their thrust the moment you stop rising.

Standing and get lifted is one thing. Falling and get lifted is another.

[General Taskeen]

This is Battle Tech. Its space magic Bandito. Therefore Fun > Realism. If I want realism, I'll play Cliffs of Dover or Blackshark 2, which I do.

Mech Warrior is about taking 'sim' aspects and making you the player being 'suspended by disbelief' because you are playing Space Magic Battle Tech, while at the same time you get the 'sim' of 50 buttons for button press management. 'Normal' FPS games usually don't have button press management-warrior, since that is the uniqueness of Mech Warrior (combining something unrealistic with that 'feel' that you are in the cockpit, because pressing buttons).

Applying hard core realism to things that don't exist creates a void in the space time continuum if fun is not applied to prevent the continuum from rupturing the universe.

This video is what Fun > Realism, combined with a lot of careful Jump Jet Balance actually looks like:

Edited by General Taskeen, 24 June 2013 - 12:30 PM.

[Rofl]

C'mon guys. We definitely need more realism in our Big Stompy Robots game.

Sarcasm aside, I know exactly what you are talking about, OP. I wish we could use some of our upward thrust to move forwards more instead of further up, especially in cases of jumping from high perch to high perch.

[El Bandito]

General Taskeen, on 24 June 2013 - 12:25 PM, said:

This is Battle Tech. Its space magic Bandito. Therefore Fun > Realism. If I want realism, I'll play Cliffs of Dover or Blackshark 2, which I do. Mech Warrior is about taking 'sim' aspects and making you the player being 'suspended by disbelief' because you are playing Space Magic Battle Tech, while at the same time you get the 'sim' of 50 buttons for button press management. Applying realism to things that don't exist creates a void in the space time continuum. This video is what Fun > Realism, combined with a lot of careful Jump Jet Balance actually looks like:

I prefer if this game stays true to the novels and lore. In the novels, once falling, JJs are only useful for slowing down your descent. Not for hovering, not for drifting, and not certainly not for shooting upwards again.

Such is 100% BattleTech JJ. Not your own fantasized version of JJ, which is closer to Armored Core or some other super agile Japanese robot fight game. Sure, sliding sideways with MW2 JJs was fun, but it certainly did not feel like it was something from the BattleTech universe.

Edited by El Bandito, 25 June 2013 - 05:30 AM.

[ManDaisy]

Wow mechwarrior LL got a lot of things right. For one thing their jumpjets weren't crap.

Edited by ManDaisy, 24 June 2013 - 01:46 PM.

[OpCentar]

I have to agree with the naysayers, I never played MW LL but that video looks like too much Gundam and not enough BT.

[Disapirro]

El Bandito, on 24 June 2013 - 12:13 PM, said:

But it's more realistic since falling multiple tons of metal should not be lifted up that easily. In the novels, once mechs are falling, your JJs can only help you to slow down the descending speed--it can never keep you hovering or lift you up. That is all it is designed to do in case of falling.

He does have a point though, when you have to use ramps to get big air, and a little dip keeps you from lifting off much at all.

[Rippthrough]

8 JJ's on a spider and a little dip or pothole means you just skim across the floor dragging your toes. That's not right.

[Levi Porphyrogenitus]

JJs need more kick. They need a shorter burn time per unit of fuel, but more vertical distance over that time. Make them more like burst rockets than low-powered jets like we have now.

"Feathering" would kick you back up in the air again (or if you're falling too fast it'd kick you to a sudden halt mid-air). They ought not to allow for anything like smooth flight on anything that isn't packing a half dozen or more JJs. Changed mechanics like that might make those 8+ JJ Spider builds not a waste.

[Zyllos]

Ya, the issue with JJ right now is that they "hover" too much instead of "thrust".

I always did like MW:LL's version of JJ and would not be opposed to them moving into that direction.

[Corvus Antaka]

JJ need a lot more hieght and flight ability. why? fun. go jump jet from the highest peak on alipine. get that "tingly" rush as you plummet forever to the ground.

fun.

jj right now arent fun. plus rly in terms of functionality, im down to 1 JJ on pretty much every build again. the extra hieght isnt worth it, and 1 can almost get you everywhere 7 can in terms of climbing walls, getting out of jenner alley, etc.

[Shalune]

General Taskeen, on 24 June 2013 - 12:25 PM, said:

This is Battle Tech. Its space magic Bandito. Therefore Fun > Realism.

There's a balance to be struck. Also, aside from their power sources and the fact that people thought a walking tank would be better than a tank, the tech in the Battletech universe is actually pretty well thought out, and believable. If you only know it from the games then that's the issue right there, they are already making some concessions to gameplay. Targeting ballistic and laser weapons, and universal power-draw on engines are all part of the canon. This is one of the big appeals, and the gritty 'real' feel of its military setting is what sets it apart from gratuitously magical gundam times.

Don't get me wrong, I'm a big fan of gratuitously magical gundam times. But I'd like it kept well away from my Mechwarrior.

[Hellcat420]

jump jets are fine as they are now. this seems like a veiled attempt to un-nerf poptarting to me.

[Kibble]

JJs are fine. Please just admit you want to have more air time to pop tart again.

[Nauht]

General Taskeen, on 24 June 2013 - 12:25 PM, said:

This is Battle Tech. Its space magic Bandito. Therefore Fun > Realism. If I want realism, I'll play Cliffs of Dover or Blackshark 2, which I do.

Mech Warrior is about taking 'sim' aspects and making you the player being 'suspended by disbelief' because you are playing Space Magic Battle Tech, while at the same time you get the 'sim' of 50 buttons for button press management. 'Normal' FPS games usually don't have button press management-warrior, since that is the uniqueness of Mech Warrior (combining something unrealistic with that 'feel' that you are in the cockpit, because pressing buttons).

Applying hard core realism to things that don't exist creates a void in the space time continuum if fun is not applied to prevent the continuum from rupturing the universe.

This video is what Fun > Realism, combined with a lot of careful Jump Jet Balance actually looks like:

Yes it's MWO, based on BT not supergundampinkjellymecha combat.

[Zordicron]

BattleTech is not Gundam.

JJ do what they should in this game. Actually, they threw a big bone out by letting us turn so easily in air, even though there is literally NO aerodynamic or thrust related mechanism to allow such maneuvers, not even super-space-magic ones. This isnt flying battle armor, or powersuits, or IRONMAN, these are building size robots. If you want bulding size robots doing backfips and loop-de-loops, go play Gundam. There needs to be some basis of reality, even warped super space magic reality, to keep MW feeling like MW, keeping it true to it's roots. Other stuff is other stuff. MW is MW. JJ cant make you fly up out of a 100M deep canyon 5 seconds after you ran off the edge like robot James Bond. They can however, keep you from destroying both legs when your building size HGN falls into it.