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Light Mechs Too Much Armor


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#21 PropagandaWar

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 02:54 PM

View PostRoland, on 24 June 2013 - 01:53 PM, said:

Honestly, I don't know how to say this in a way that isn't gonna make you mad.

The Spider doesn't have too much armor. You just missed. You missed a lot.

If you land your shots on a spider, it dies in two shots.

No they they take full alphas constantly. I mean constantly. Ive witnessed and done it myself. 40 points in the back yellow armor. Shoot in the chest leg lights up. Nope sorry Roland there is something super squirrly about that mech. Blast a commando no problem, jenner, No problem, raven (Well shot one dead on that was clueless this weekend on the beak side profile guass erppc 3 med lasers he got a orange leg out of it) usually no problem. See ac/20'***** ppc's guass. More often than not they walk through it. Even medium laser 4 meds twice dead on shut down spider powered up ran off orange armor. Yep ok. That was after he already had orange armor.

#22 GroovYChickeN

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 02:54 PM

I'm sorry but no they don't.

#23 PEEFsmash

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 03:06 PM

Lights can be one-shotted, and do get one-shotted all the time. Part of the problem is that Spiders in particular have bad hit detection, even worse than the rest of mechs due to crap HSR.

#MakeEloPublic

#24 Dude42

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 03:13 PM

Right after the hotfix patch I could hit stuff really well. Hitting moving lights and mediums was no longer a problem and damage was registering to the proper armor secton on moving targets. For about 6 hours. Since that first bit it's actually gotten worse.

The secret to the lights is that you have to lead them(even with lasers, shoot in front of where they are). It varies from light to light, player to player, but basically, slowly increase your lead on the target until your "hits" register damage on the paperdoll(sometimes this is a silly amount), and keep in mind that on your screen you will be missing, you'll have to watch the paperdoll. But once you figure out the lead amount, taking a light out is just a matter of 1-2 well placed leg shots. Most of the time. There are some times when no matter how you lead or what you do, that no damage will be assigned tot he mech.

You just have to be aware that all mechs have lag shields at the moment(even assault mechs). Even you have your own lag shield. Until PGI fixes it, you will take extremely reduced to zero damage if you constantly stay moving. Also, randomly varying your speed, walking forawrd and backward is enough to make most shots miss(even if on your screen they are hitting you directly).

It's bad, personally, I blame lousy hit detection(and what honestly seems like reduced damage to lights/mediums) for only coming in 11th place in the medium bracket.

Like, I don't give a damn how fast you are, if an AC/20 hits you, and registers ANY damage at all, it should register the full 20. But it's not, I've seen lights hit in the arm with dual AC/20 blasts and it barely turns yellow. Even assuming that just 1 of the 2 AC/20 shot connected, the arm should have been deep orange(from having taken 20 damage). This is from spectating people tho, I don't use AC/20s myself. But I can observe that something hit the light mech, because it took damage to the arm, there were only 2 mechs fighting, and on my screen the shot looked like a clear hit(both rounds connected and exploded in mid air, leaving a smoke puff). So how did the light mech take the shot but take less than 20 damage? That seems to happen a LOT, even with lasers.

I ran a BJ-1X during the tourney(Also a BJ-1DC), and I saw many lights take 200 damage to the CT and keep walking...

And here's the real kicker to it, the thing that makes me believe that it is a real problem. One of the matches the only thing I did was rush back to defend the base, and fight a light mech, and die. My total damage for the match was 198. How the hell do I die to a light mech(spider for this specific instance I'm thinking of) without having fought a single other mech the duration of the match, get credited for doing 198 damage(which HAD to all be on that spider, again, as it killed me and I fired on no other mech) but yet the spiders armor is all bright yellow still. Not a single section is even orange. Where the hell did that 198 damage go? Because to the best of my knowledge, if a spider takes 198 damage(hell, even 2 spiders) it's(they're) gonna be beat to hell. In fact it should have a MAX of 12 armor left, since the absolute max a spider can have is 210. And this was with me leading the target with the lasers and watching for paperdoll flashes. I was hitting it, and it was taking damage(I think, I don't think it flashes if no damage is done). I might even have that match recorded, as I was streaming some, I'll check out the vids and see. But that seems to be the exception rather than the rule. Most of the time, once you figure out the lead time on a light, its just 1-2 shots from death.

TL;DR: I agree, hit detection is broken. They don't have too much armor, they have lagshields.

Edit: Forgot to mention that my ping is about 65 usually.

Edited by Dude42, 24 June 2013 - 03:19 PM.


#25 Karazyr

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 03:23 PM

being a spider pilot myself i can say no, no they do not have alot of armor, 1 medium laser wil take you down to orrange if it hits you in the back, you will die from 1 unlucky ac 20 shot

playing them is hard but so rewarding, in a way i do enjoy people QQing about lights since the people who QQ are heavy pilots and have never played a light after the lag shield fix

try it, and see how long you last :ph34r:

#26 Whompity

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 03:24 PM

Generally I find this on all mechs. Lights (especially Spiders) are just more frustrating because they SHOULD be easy to damage. Plus they're skinny little waifs, that doesn't help.

#27 PropagandaWar

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 04:55 PM

View PostDerrpy, on 24 June 2013 - 03:23 PM, said:

being a spider pilot myself i can say no, no they do not have alot of armor, 1 medium laser wil take you down to orrange if it hits you in the back, you will die from 1 unlucky ac 20 shot

playing them is hard but so rewarding, in a way i do enjoy people QQing about lights since the people who QQ are heavy pilots and have never played a light after the lag shield fix

try it, and see how long you last :ph34r:


when they register yeah its very true. I'm a medium pilot and im on your spiders butts constantly but when I play and even see sparks flying and red from heavy hits 25+ damage and its shrugged of it gets annoying. Mainly because there is so little you get out of killing lights. Its a hassle chasing them, and a big waste of time damage wise.

#28 Ragnar Darkmane

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 05:09 PM

Spiders have insanely bad hit detection ATM, worse than that of any other mech. Whole apha salvoes disappearing on impact is not uncommon. I think that's the only reason you see so many Spiders right now (besides the trial Spider this month, but don't tell me anyone drives that POS more than once), people found out about that when using their other mechs and bought a spider/dusted off their old one to abuse it as long it still works (it's cheap enough after all). Seriously, the number of Spiders in matches has increased by at least 80% since the last month. Before that it was only Jenners and ECM Ravens.

Edited by Ragnar Darkmane, 24 June 2013 - 05:12 PM.


#29 Hellcat420

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 05:12 PM

hit detection is garbage in this game. i had a game the other day where i literally landed 14 erppc shots that i could verify 100% with my eyes and crosshair turning red that the shots hit(and other weapons as well) and had 80 damage at the end of the match. these were not sniper shots either, the mechs were no more than 300m away from me in the open nowhere near cover.

#30 TB Freelancer

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 05:13 PM

View PostRoland, on 24 June 2013 - 01:53 PM, said:

Honestly, I don't know how to say this in a way that isn't gonna make you mad.

The Spider doesn't have too much armor. You just missed. You missed a lot.

If you land your shots on a spider, it dies in two shots.


'nuff said.

EDIT: To be fair....it seems to me that hit detection has taken a serious dive. It was great for a while after HSR then somewhere along the lines it went to hell.

Edited by TB Freelancer, 24 June 2013 - 05:15 PM.


#31 PropagandaWar

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 05:44 PM

View PostTB Freelancer, on 24 June 2013 - 05:13 PM, said:


'nuff said.

EDIT: To be fair....it seems to me that hit detection has taken a serious dive. It was great for a while after HSR then somewhere along the lines it went to hell.


yeah im basing mine off of HSR not lousy shooting. Another thing that may help HSR is making those guys just a tad bigger.

#32 SuperJoe

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 05:46 PM

gotta learn to lead your shot to compensate for pgi's awful netcode, mister. It isn't an armor thing.

#33 dario03

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 05:49 PM

This is a problem with all mechs in the game. On multiple occasions I've seen a Atlas not register damage while playing hug-a-wars with another Atlas. Its just the faster you go the more likely it is to happen so it seems to happen with lights more often (and for some reason the Spider the most of all). And I think shut downs affect it as well. Yesterday I fired 2LL and 2PPC into a shut down Jenner at about 50m and 100m and even though it clearly hit and the crosshairs turned red his paper doll showed no damage at all later on. But every other shot registered just fine and he died a bit later.

#34 mrbash

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 04:33 AM

I have to agree here. I pilot a Jenner and it is next to impossible to get any hits on a Spider. I am unsure why. Using SSRMs I can land a few units of damage but it is still curious why the Spiders took soo little damage. Jenners and Ravens on the other hand seem to take damage as I would expect. I really do wish PGI would look into what is going on with the Spiders. There appears to be something wrong.

#35 Livewyr

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 05:38 AM

Didn't need to even open the thread.

#StillNoNeed

#36 Sharknoms

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 05:46 AM

Posted Image

#37 Kaldor

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 05:55 AM

View Poststjobe, on 24 June 2013 - 02:26 PM, said:

Or, you know, stop making the game unplayable as a non-bugged light? For every anecdote you can tell about "indestructable" lights, I have one of me getting one-shot. HSR isn't working properly (although it seems to be better with the recent ping fix), and from what you're saying it may be that the hit-box uncoupling bug is back. Either way, lights do emphatically NOT need more nerfs. Honestly, how many drops have YOU done in a light? Try it, and you may change your tune.


This

I have been one shot and one shot some lights as well.

Spiders are buggy, but across the board, lights do not need a nerf. Fix their hit boxes, and they will be fine.

Mediums are actually in a far worse place at the moment.

#38 BillyM

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 07:10 AM

You've been one-shot by someone who missed 3-4 times with a 45pt direct-damage alpha already, most likely. Sure, you died, but a medium or heavy mech would have died twice already due to torso coring.

...you've likewise repeatedly tanked reasonable DPS/Laser build opponents, spreading tons of damage to every stupid tiny component.

--billyM

Edited by BillyM, 27 June 2013 - 07:11 AM.


#39 Lykaon

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 07:28 AM

View PostCryos420, on 24 June 2013 - 01:55 PM, said:

No, he ran into a building and got stuck for a second, and i watch an atlas and myself alpha strike him and he sped away.... this was probably mid way through the fight. And i know i hit him, my cross hair lite up.



Had a match recently where I blew a Raven's leg clean off at 400+ meters with quad PPCs but failed to breach CT armor on a shut down spider at under 200m (over 90m) with a solid visually represented hit with those same PPCs.

It's not light mechs it's Spiders specificly.

When I pilot my Raven for light hunting/recon I can not take down a Spider in a timely fashion without Streaks. No other light chassis I engage has the longevity in combat that Spiders see to enjoy.

#40 Svalfangr

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 07:35 AM







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