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Try To Get Serial Ms Sidewinder 3D Pro To Work, Or Just Buy New Usb Joystick?


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#1 Lucilius

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 07:27 AM

I kept my trusty Microsoft Sidewinder 3D Pro all these years and was even able to play X3: Reunion with it by buying one of the last generation Creative Labs sound card that still had a serial gameport.

But even that sound card's days were numbered. Not that it broke or anything, its just not compatible with modern motherboards nowadays.

So, I've researched on how to get this nice joystick of mine to work in a USB system...to no avail. Serial gameport-to-USB converters are no guarantee that this specific joystick would work.

And so I have a "Lostech" joystick...more like a joystick that became obsolete.

Darn it.

So, should I continue to look for ways to get this MS SIdewinder 3D Pro with a serial gameport to work on a USB system, or should I just get myself a USB joystick?

This comes to mind and it costs P1,995, roughly around US$45.

Edited by Lucilius, 24 June 2013 - 07:28 AM.


#2 Loc Nar

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 10:08 AM

Unfortunately even if you had a Warthog you would be sadly disappointed. Below is my (now) canned response on the subject.

Buy the HOTAS (you really want the throttle) you most want to use with Star Citizen or something else to justify it's cost, then use it or part of it to play MWO.

Throttle/pedals/mouse is the easiest (not cheapest, easiest) way to have an optimal setup in MWO, with throttle/mouse closely behind and lefty stick/mouse being the next best down the foodchain. Throttle and turning are nicely implemented (well, except for that *screetch to a halt when you use battlegrid/chat/scoreboard with analog throttle thing) analog controls and as such work quite well with off-the-shelf throttles/joysticks however reticule aim in MWO is not ideally suited to *most joysticks although the issues with 'joystick' are not because it's a joystick, but rather its what is called a first-order controller while reticule aim in MWO is programmed as a zero-order application (just like moving the cursor in a browser).

zero-order: directly manipulates target/cursor position, single precision action req (also called direct inputs)
first-order: manipulates target/cursor velocity, two precision actions req

Unfortunately a first order controller is objectively disadvantaged in a zero-order environment, but if you want to try a stick that hurdles past all the perceived technical limitations holding back joysticks so you can go about objectively evaluating the viability of joystick for aiming etc before committing real money I recommend a Thrustmaster T16000M ($40) due to it's ability to be controlled by TARGET, providing more flexibility at your fingertips than any games 'joystick support' could ever hope to provide. It's a useful tool in any gamer's toybox actually, precisely for probing control viability regardless of a title's current state of control implementation.

There are zero-order joysticks, but unless you make one you likely do not have one. Check out the stick I built for MWO (descriptions in album) that was made for my mechpit to see an example.

Despite occasional finger pointing at PGI for lack of 'joystick support' it's not the issue at all, or at best just a distraction that keeps people from figuring out the underlying causes. PGI knows what a joystick is and how to code for it and if they wanted this game to be primarily played with joysticks, but they chose zero-order to appeal to a wider audience. The reason joysticks worked in previous mech titles is simple. They were coded for first-order controls, same reason a normal stick works great in a flight sim. I wrote an article called Controls Demystified(?) that gets into this in more detail.

*(from ATD40)
Gameplay/Game modes/Meta
Loc Nar: When will the controls be updated to allow the use of chat/scoreboard/battlegrid while using analog throttle?
A: It’s a technical limitation of the engine currently. We’re looking into a way to fix it.

Edited by Loc Nar, 24 June 2013 - 10:09 AM.


#3 Bishop Steiner

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Posted 24 June 2013 - 03:05 PM

I simply added a Serial to USB converter. The thing is not optimized for this game sadly, or maybe I just haven't tried to tweak it enough. If someone has made a good CFG for it, I will be happy to try it.

Sidewinder Pro is still the single best bang for buck Joystick I have ever used or owned.

#4 Hammerhai

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 01:50 PM

Gameplay/Game modes/Meta
Loc Nar: When will the controls be updated to allow the use of chat/scoreboard/battlegrid while using analog throttle?
A: It’s a technical limitation of the engine currently. We’re looking into a way to fix it.
Btw that statement that the screeching halt is a "technical limitation"?
Nonsense.
I drove all the time with battle grid open while steering and at a set speed with a JS setup until about the 2nd week of September. So unless a new Cryengine version broke something at that time, I disbelieve that.
This was only for a short time after Battle Grid was introduced, though. Then we had the screeching halt as well as the you shall not steer with JJ's in mid air with your rudder pedals any more.
So Bryan, please check your facts ...

#5 Gremlich Johns

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 05:41 PM

I have the Logitech Extreme 3D Pro and it works just fine for MW:O - for $30 or less if you shop well.

#6 Loc Nar

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 06:32 PM

Quote

Btw that statement that the screeching halt is a "technical limitation"?

Nonsense.


Heh... don't get me started!

Quote

I have the Logitech Extreme 3D Pro and it works just fine for MW:O - for $30 or less if you shop well.


3D Pro is fine and all, but particularly for underbaked titles such as MWO the Thrustmaster T16000M ($40 new, $20 used...) honestly has no competition south of hundred(s) dollars and IMO no gamer's toybox is complete without one (I think of mine as a 'control scheme viability diagnostic tool') owing to its extreme flexibility. As much as I hate saying it, even with a Cougar or Warty, playing MWO with an off-shelf joystick is still a marginal experience due to it's zero-order coding for reticule aim.

Not impossible, just far from optimal, exactly like using a joystick for moving the cursor in a browser because it's the same thing. Or using an off-shelf joystick in any other shooter. Using a TARGET enabled stick at least reduces these disadvantages to a minimum if taken advantage of, and basically eliminates perceived 'joystick support' hurdles. Plus the T16000M smokes the 3D pro from a hardware standpoint, with it's 14bit dual axis Hall (same sensor from Warty; precision and longevity in a whole different class) on the x/y.

If you ever find yourself with a TARGET capable stick, I already have handy scripts you are welcome to that can easily be further modified to taste, but TARGET is the key and really puts these things in a class all their own...





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