12 replies to this topic

[Ragnar Darkmane]

Hi chaps, after playing PPCs on most of my mechs I thought it would be time for a radical change before I perish in a sea of boredom. Thus after my trusty C1 Cat "Fenris" and STK 3F "Leman Russ", my new glorious battle steed "Freki" was born. Loaded with Artemis blessed and TAG guided LRM 40s it comes equipped with a mighty arsenal of 3 Medium Lasers and a Center Torso mounted Large laser, powered by 16 Double Heat Sinks, to bring destruction to those who dare evade it's furious missile dropping wrath.
The ignorant, haters and fools in this forum said that LRMs are dead, thus I showered them with righteous salvoes of doom and read their "LRMz thottaly OP DOOD! NOOB!" messages with a cold smile on my face, knowing that retribution has been done for this most noble weapon system.
My mech might not be the fastest but once they are TAGed, they get bagged.

So look at the build of my trusted mech fellow Mech Warriors and let it inspire you to give those poor forgotten LRM launchers rotting in the darkest corner of you mech lab another chance!

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...9395dfb663bef55

---
Exaggeration aside: I'm quite satisifed with the build's performance, it even turned out to be my best performing mech so far (even better than my 3 PPC 3F Stalker, MADNESS!) with a solid 1.80 K/D ratio. Once you know how and when you should shoot your LRMs or not (feel free to read this older post of mine if you would like to read a short LRM guide I've written some time ago: http:// http://mwomercs.com/...78#entry2468278 ) they are performing admirable.
A good LRM boat is able to fill quite some holes left open in a meta which mostely focuses on long range sniping like indirect fire support for one or two lights engaging a larger target at close range outside of the teams line of sight or TAGing hostile Atlas DDCs (they just like to lead charges in the open with their "invincible" ECM bubble which also means that they think that an AMS isn't necessary) for your allies (so they actually know which Atlas they should point all those PPCs at) and shredding it with multiple salvoes.

Instead of trying to force as many LRMs as possible into the mech I went for a more balanced approach, more suitable for PUGs. 40 LRMS with Artemis and Tag are more than enough to deal enough damage to punch through the 1-2 AMS shield. If I make my shots count 5 tons usually do not run out before the enemies do. 3 Medium Lasers and the Large Laser (that also deals additional damage at those ranges LRMs are most effective: between 180-450m) provide solid close range denfence that many LRM boats lack and can be alphaed for quite some time before I get heat problems thanks to the 16 DHS (heat efficiency without LRMs is 1.51) . I dropped the BAP I first used because its simply more effective to hold fire 'till 750m most of the time because the missile flight time above that is simply too long to get solid hits unless an ally provides a near-perfect lock.

Even though I'm pretty much satisfied with the build, I'd still like to hear your opinion.Tweaks can still be made and I always look for ways to increase performance. Feel free to discuss my build and LRMs in general.

Bring out your big rokkits and show'em how a real wolf does battle!

Edited by Ragnar Darkmane, 29 June 2013 - 01:27 PM.

[Angel of Annihilation]

Running a 4 LL, 2 LRM 10 Stalker right now. Only 27 matches so far but I have a 3.36 K/D ratio with it so that LRM performance doesn't sound all that great to me.

[Ragnar Darkmane]

Viktor Drake, on 29 June 2013 - 06:25 PM, said:

Running a 4 LL, 2 LRM 10 Stalker right now.  Only 27 matches so far but I have a 3.36 K/D ratio with it so that LRM performance doesn't sound all that great to me.

To be honest less than 30 LRMs on your mech is less than optimal. Yes, you'll do some damage with them but a single AMS will shoot down at least 8 missiles, basically reducing the firepower of your 20 LRMs by half even before the missiles hit (if they do, some will always miss). 30+ LRMs deal enough damage to be worth their weight and TAGs and Artemis aren't worth the weight on fewer LRMs but drastically increase effectiveness on boating. LRM 10s are also the oddest of the LRM launchers: LRM 15s only weight 2 tons more and have 33% more firepower, 2 LRM 15s shoot 30 missiles compared to 20 for only 4 more tons. Artemis also only save you 1 ton compared to A-LRM5s and without Artemis are even worse as they weight 1 ton more than 2 5s and don't even provide more missiles.
Of course your results with LRMs feel underwhelming because LRMs are a "go big or go home" weapon that only reaches it's true potential with sufficient numbers and buffed by Artemis and TAG (then they seriously hurt other people). Most of your damage comes from LLs boating, not the LRMs.

Edited by Ragnar Darkmane, 30 June 2013 - 05:48 AM.

[superteds]

XL it, throw in more missiles (alrm50 is a nice balance) and get more ammo/whatever in there. might as well XL a pure support boat.

[Lightfoot]

They aren't crap, but LRMs do have a hit detection bug since the 6/20 patch. Sometimes they hit as they should, sometimes they do no damage.

I had one instance where a lone, damaged, Jagermech came straight at me from 700 meters with no torso twisting or LRM evasion. It took 6-7 salvos of Artemis guided LRM45 on the chest. It was TAG-ed and I had BAP and LoS the whole time. Well needless to say the Jagermech won even though if LRMs would ever work it would have been this battle. I think my 3x Medium Lasers did more damage. I am assuming this was a bug, but I stopped testing LRMs. Test results: LRMs Bugged.

[Skyfaller]

The Stalker 5M is a failure as a variant. It trades 1 energy slot for 1 useless 1-tube launcher (that is bugged too btw.. the biggest missile launcher will be assigned the 1-tube lol).

Stalker 5s is what you want to be using. Here are my builds:

'Assault' STK-5S
2 PPC
2 LRM15 (1080 missiles)
2 SSRM2 (1 ton ammo)
Artemis
2 med lasers
BAP
TAG
2 AMS (1 ton ammo)
Full armor.
Endo
XL300+2 DHS
Modules: Target Info, Adv. Targeting Delay x2

A very potent build for those who know how to use this mech. The dual PPCs = 2 LRM10s in one spot worth of damage (usually CT) which makes the dual LRM15s kill faster..and the PPC fires twice in the time it takes the LRM15 volley to arrive (400m+). Up close the two med lasers can finish off most damaged mechs and the PPC's 90 min range does give multiple chances during a turn fight to pop a hit when they stray past 90m (requires S - pattern maneuvering). Dual AMS provides decent damage reduction for you and your team-mates...and makes you immune to SSRMs outside of 50m~

'Hammer' STK-5S
4x LRM15 (1260 missiles)
Artemis
5 med lasers
TAG
BAP
XL300 + DHS
Full Armor
Endo
Modules: Sensor Range x2, Adv. Targeting Delay x2

An absolutely devastating build which is best used in stalker 3F but it works on the 5s just as well (just less torso twist). A variation on this build can give up one med laser in arm to put a 2nd TAG so you get two beams that have a very high chance of lasing fast moving mechs (particularly small ones) under ECM. If anything gets close you have good firepower..and if anything closes in on you after receiving two volleys of quad LRM15 they will die VERY quickly to the med lasers.

'Command & Support' STK-5S

LRM15x2 (1080 missiles)
Artemis
BAP
TAG
Command Console
AMSx2 (2000 ammo)
NARC (1 ton ammo)
5 med lasers
Endo
Almost max armor.
STD 295+2 DHS
Modules: Target Info, Seismic.

For dedicated command junkies. This build allows a team commander to support team with long range fire and potent close range damage plus can NARC and TAG. This is what a 5M wishes it could do but cannot. Dual AMS with plenty of ammo to make an enemy missile boat 'mostly harmless'. This mech is best used as a front line unit ..not exposing itself to fire but ahead of team behind cover so it can use the command console, Target info & seismic sensor to provide best dual AMS support and pummel enemy brawlers that rush to hit your team..from behind!

[Kyynele]

Skyfaller, on 30 June 2013 - 06:54 AM, said:

The Stalker 5M is a failure as a variant. It trades 1 energy slot for 1 useless 1-tube launcher (that is bugged too btw.. the biggest missile launcher will be assigned the 1-tube lol).

I wouldn't say it's bugged since it works like all other missile tubes in all mechs before the highlanders' dynamic missile tubes were introduced. The left torso with 2 missile launchers has 7 tubes, and launches 7 missiles in a volley per each launcher. Just like a catapult A1 can launch 3 LRM15s simultaneously from one ear that has 15 tubes. Or like CN9-A can launch 3 SRM6 simultaneously from it's torso, despite it only having 10 missile tubes.

If this is a bug, there are tons of mech builds that are going to get screwed up really bad. I don't expect it to get 'fixed' anytime soon, if ever. And as it is, your statement is pure BS. The 5M can launch 8 more missiles in one volley than a 5S (10+7+7+6+10 vs 10+6+6+10), and with one extra launcher can launch a shitload more missiles in general. I have the 5M, you obviously don't.

Your Hammer build is more of a failure, why on earth would anyone use that on a 5S when it's obviously superior on the 3F? Do you consider the worse torso twist an advantage?

[Lord of All]

No back armor! Hahahaha.

[Angel of Annihilation]

Ragnar Darkmane, on 30 June 2013 - 05:46 AM, said:

To be honest less than 30 LRMs on your mech is less than optimal. Yes, you'll do some damage with them but a single AMS will shoot down at least 8 missiles, basically reducing the firepower of your 20 LRMs by half even before the missiles hit (if they do, some will always miss). 30+ LRMs deal enough damage to be worth their weight and TAGs and Artemis aren't worth the weight on fewer LRMs but drastically increase effectiveness on boating. LRM 10s are also the oddest of the LRM launchers: LRM 15s only weight 2 tons more and have 33% more firepower, 2 LRM 15s shoot 30 missiles compared to 20 for only 4 more tons. Artemis also only save you 1 ton compared to A-LRM5s and without Artemis are even worse as they weight 1 ton more than 2 5s and don't even provide more missiles.
Of course your results with LRMs feel underwhelming because LRMs are a "go big or go home" weapon that only reaches it's true potential with sufficient numbers and buffed by Artemis and TAG (then they seriously hurt other people). Most of your damage comes from LLs boating, not the LRMs.

Honestly, the LRMs are only there for a bit of extra damage and for firing over obstacles. My main damage comes from the 4 LLs.

My point isn't so much as I feel LRMs are underwhelming, rather the numbers he posted didn't give me confidence that I could do better numbers by going with a LRM boat config rather than the LL config.

What I find great about LRMs is their ability to fire over obstacles. Even with just 20 of them in a flight I can do a continous stream of damage and slowly erode the enemies armor as I slowly plod along to the front and get into range of my LLs. Also they are excellent for suppressive fire. Even a few missiles fired will clear a sniper from a ridgeline or cause the enemy to duck and cover and each second they are ducking and covering is a second where they are not firing at me or my team. Finally, coming back full circle, LRMs ability to fire over cover (even just 20 of them) will allow me to get more assists per game thus increasing my earnings and score not to mention I can't count the times I managed to finish off a runner who just barely managed to get out of my direct line of site.

Honestly, I think too many players have a, "Go big or Go Home" attitude and focus solely on Alpha, super high speed, etc. This laser-like focus prevents them from seeing the secondary or tertiary benefits things like good heat management, sustainable firepower or in the case of LRMs, the ability of even a single LRM5 to keep an enemy supressed and reacting to you rather than you reacting to them.

[TheFuzzyBunny]

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...52272f08d470a35

[Skyfaller]

Lord of All, on 30 June 2013 - 07:51 AM, said:

No back armor! Hahahaha.

It shows the total armor in the section front/back you can assign it as you will. The important thing it is showing is the tonnage the armor used up. Use your head a little

Kyynele, on 30 June 2013 - 07:26 AM, said:

The left torso with 2 missile launchers has 7 tubes, and launches 7 missiles in a volley per each launcher. Just like a catapult A1 can launch 3 LRM15s simultaneously from one ear that has 15 tubes. Or like CN9-A can launch 3 SRM6 simultaneously from it's torso, despite it only having 10 missile tubes.

Thats because it has 15 tubes being shared by 3 weapon slots per arm. This slot is bugged because it has two different sized tubes. For example, if you put an SSRM2 and an LRM15 the LRM15 gets assigned to the 1-tube and you fire it 1 missile at a time. If you put two LRMs..say, LRM5 and LRM15 the 15 will once again be fired in a stream of 1-missile at a time while the LRM5 gets fired all in a burst.

This is an old, old bug in the 5M.

Quote

Your Hammer build is more of a failure, why on earth would anyone use that on a 5S when it's obviously superior on the 3F? Do you consider the worse torso twist an advantage?

I said it was better on the 3F for a reason (the torso twist) but the damage remains identical. Why the 5s? Because if you keep one mastered stalker in your stable the 5s should be the one not the 3F. Dual AMS potential build > more torso twist. You can overcome torso twist issues by swinging the legs too. I've never had a time in the 5s when I've said to myself 'damn I wish this thing could turn the torso better!' .

The build itself is absolutely solid for damage dealing and that is why it is there. You get kills so fast with it you feel guilty about it. I've literally 2-shotted ECM atlai with it... this is a 91 point alpha damage hit quadlrm15+5med lasers and two volleys just obliterate something that big (TAG how I love thee..) if you keep the lasers on the CT.

[El Bandito]

I prefer HGN-733 for Assault mech boating LRMs, but that's just me.

Edited by El Bandito, 30 June 2013 - 11:24 AM.

[Kyynele]

Skyfaller, on 30 June 2013 - 10:48 AM, said:

Thats because it has 15 tubes being shared by 3 weapon slots per arm. This slot is bugged because it has two different sized tubes. For example, if you put an SSRM2 and an LRM15 the LRM15 gets assigned to the 1-tube and you fire it 1 missile at a time. If you put two LRMs..say, LRM5 and LRM15 the 15 will once again be fired in a stream of 1-missile at a time while the LRM5 gets fired all in a burst.

This is an old, old bug in the 5M.

I've had the 5M for months, and it has always had the full amount of missile launchers in it, either 5 SSRM2s or 5 ASRM6s, and they have all always fired in a single volley. One of my friends played a stupid 5M build with 2x LRM20 3x LRM15, and it never spat out single missiles in row. Shutdowned and ran out of ammo a lot, though.

If that has at some point actually been a bug, it's been long gone.

edit, for the OP:

You could also consider downgrading those LRM15s to LRM10s and adding another LRM5 to the left torso: http://mwo.smurfy-ne...ff127500b88cb26

This would result in a slightly lower perceived alpha, but you would launch all the missiles in one volley, and that volley would be 5 missiles more than what your build launches at the moment (making more missiles get through AMS). The recycle time for smaller launchers is also faster, and since the recycle time only starts after all volleys have been launched, this will quicken the recycle a fraction more. Would also work nicely in chain fire when you just want to suppress the enemy.

Edited by Kyynele, 01 July 2013 - 04:20 AM.