147 replies to this topic

[PropagandaWar]

I've only really noticed spiders not taking proper in game damage even when powered down (Think its HSR and possibly the model size but who knows). Well that and shooting a raven in the beak and watching its leg go orange. That is all.

[stjobe]

Kutnarb, on 27 June 2013 - 12:44 PM, said:

I think that light mechs are way too survivable at the moment

You have obviously not played a light lately.

Please drop a few times in a light and then come back here and say that again. If you can do that with a straight face, you're a better liar than I am.

[Loc Nar]

Quote

I think that light mechs are way too survivable at the moment.

...said no one ever Kutnarb

[Valore]

Its not lights, its hit detection.

They used to be great, and we had World of Raven/Jenner.

Then HSR started coming in, and suddenly there was massive light QQ. Which was understandable, the game changed massively.

Now hitreg has gone to crap again, people are complaining. Its frustrating watching perfect shots do nothing to a Spider who's circling you like a moron.

Especially when just a month ago you'd send him off with an AC20 round and teach him not to do it.

Edited by Valore, 27 June 2013 - 03:51 PM.

[w0rm]

Valore, on 27 June 2013 - 03:51 PM, said:

just a month ago you'd send him off with an AC20 round and teach him not to do it.

To be fair they still do in 70% of all cases. The odd godlike-spider-cases just stand out.

[Kaarde]

I think its a mixture of Hit Reg, with a dab of lag, and a generous dose of aiming/convergence.
I've noticed some Spiders that were untouchable, and others that fell apart when sneezed at. Sometimes Ravens seem to be untouchable as well, though usually Jenners seem to draw shots in like a black hole.

Last match I dropped in I had a Spider circling an assault hitting him with an ERPPC everytime he got to his back. Eventually the Spider overheated and stopped dead in his tracks. I unloaded on him with mlas and srm6 from my 4sp and blew his opposite arm off instead of his near leg that I was aiming for. /shrug, it happens. Other times I'd have turned him into confetti with a hit like that.

[Kutnarb]

PEEFsmash, on 27 June 2013 - 03:30 PM, said:

Stupid me! How could I have forgotten that damage has to be a reflection of tonnage!

Damage taken per ton, not given as a light. As for the rest of your post...calm down and act like a decent human being.

Valore, on 27 June 2013 - 03:51 PM, said:

Its not lights, its hit detection.

They used to be great, and we had World of Raven/Jenner.

Then HSR started coming in, and suddenly there was massive light QQ. Which was understandable, the game changed massively.

Now hitreg has gone to crap again, people are complaining. Its frustrating watching perfect shots do nothing to a Spider who's circling you like a moron.

Especially when just a month ago you'd send him off with an AC20 round and teach him not to do it.

PropagandaWar, on 27 June 2013 - 03:39 PM, said:

I've only really noticed spiders not taking proper in game damage even when powered down (Think its HSR and possibly the model size but who knows). Well that and shooting a raven in the beak and watching its leg go orange. That is all.

Yeah could be.

[CancR]

Kunae, on 27 June 2013 - 02:27 PM, said:

Well played lights are supposed to be able to take down lone assaults, who've wandered away from the herd. As a matter of fact, it's their job.

Often times I feel like there are maybe 4 other people on these forums beside me that actually understand Mechwarrior. Statement like this give me a glimmer of hope.

[Valore]

Kunae, on 27 June 2013 - 02:27 PM, said:

Well played lights are supposed to be able to take down lone assaults, who've wandered away from the herd. As a matter of fact, it's their job.

This depends wildly on whether you played/care about BT or not.

In fluff/lore, lights are meant to run away screaming like little girls away from Assaults.

The only possibility for that not happening is that the Assault pilot was a terrible pilot.

For me, a good Assault pilot should wipe the floor with a light pilot of equal skill.

Edited by Valore, 27 June 2013 - 04:20 PM.

[Taemien]

OP must have ran into me a few times or someone like me. If I'm in a light mech and I catch you by yourself, it doesn't matter what you're in, you either run or die. That isn't a factor of the light mech itself. I've just been piloting them since 1997. In MW3, MW4, and MWLL. I think the only time I've lost a 1 on 1 engagement in a light was using a Jenner with standard heatsinks a few months ago, so my build wasn't exactly optimum and it was a raven with streaks. Had I enough cbills at the time to have DHS, he would have been wrecked.

Light mechs take skill and situational awareness. When in a light, most of my defeats are simply from not paying attention to whats going on. If you're nailing shots on them and they aren't doing damage or reduced damage, thats a function of hit detection and lag. Not the design of light mechs. That's a different topic entirely and doesn't affect everyone's experience with lights. Nerfing lights directly because of hit detection would be overkill. Fix the hit detection, and lights fall in line to where they need to be.

Course fixing hit detection in CryEngine... well if PGI does it, they will be the first.

[stjobe]

Valore, on 27 June 2013 - 04:19 PM, said:

This depends wildly on whether you played/care about BT or not.

In fluff/lore, lights are meant to run away screaming like little girls away from Assaults.

The only possibility for that not happening is that the Assault pilot was a terrible pilot.

Sure, but that would make for a horrible game when everyone is free to choose what 'mech they drop in. Why would anyone drop in anything but the heaviest 'mech they could?

Remember, BT had this thing called BattleValue which meant that sides were pretty balanced.

Valore, on 27 June 2013 - 04:19 PM, said:

For me, a good Assault pilot should wipe the floor with a light pilot of equal skill.

As I always tend to say in these arguments, it's not supposed to be about tonnage, it's supposed to be about skill.

A light has a couple of advantages over an assault: Speed and agility. An assault of course has a couple of advantages over a light, mainly armour and firepower. In a one-on-one, the pilot that manages to leverage his advantages better than the opponent leverages his is the one who should win. Not the one in the heavier 'mech.

If the pilot in the heavier 'mech always wins, skill becomes pointless. We don't want that, do we?

[Valore]

stjobe, on 27 June 2013 - 04:26 PM, said:

Sure, but that would make for a horrible game when everyone is free to choose what 'mech they drop in. Why would anyone drop in anything but the heaviest 'mech they could?

Remember, BT had this thing called BattleValue which meant that sides were pretty balanced.


As I always tend to say in these arguments, it's not supposed to be about tonnage, it's supposed to be about skill.

A light has a couple of advantages over an assault: Speed and agility. An assault of course has a couple of advantages over a light, mainly armour and firepower. In a one-on-one, the pilot that manages to leverage his advantages better than the opponent leverages his is the one who should win. Not the one in the heavier 'mech.

If the pilot in the heavier 'mech always wins, skill becomes pointless. We don't want that, do we?

That's the thing. Lights have other roles they're meant to be doing. The answer to 'Oh crap, I'm in a light, and in a 1v1 battle with an Assault' should not be 'Let's take him on!' >_<

It really should be 'I'm off to cap! cya!'


I can buy into the 'Lights should be able to win vs an assault' argument as long as its qualified. i.e. the light works the terrain well, etc.

But lights should not have enough survivability to trade shots while doing something silly like circle strafing an assault.

[stjobe]

Valore, on 27 June 2013 - 04:29 PM, said:

But lights should not have enough survivability to trade shots while doing something silly like circle strafing an assault.

And they don't.

Trust me, I've piloted them for almost a year. Especially after HSR, you *really* don't want to be anywhere in the firing arc of an assault.

As I said, you'd have to leverage your speed and mobility to stay out of the business end of those PPCs and Gauss Rifles, or you're dead. If you manage it though, why shouldn't your 20-point alpha be able to tear a hole in the backside of even an Atlas?

Speed and mobility vs armour and firepower - with equal pilot skill it is, and should be, a toss-up who wins.

[aniviron]

Yeah, light mechs are too survivable; they should die when you just target them, instead of having to land one whole sniper group/ac40 round on them.

Go play a light mech for a while, and come back and tell us what you have learned. Did you get one-shotted from 500m+ out for most of your deaths, just dodging around minding your own business when suddenly you lose a leg or a side torso from full armor? If you didn't, keep taking advantage of your poor opponents until you are playing at the level where this will constitute most of your deaths; I find that they tend to be split about 50/50 between being getting blown away in one shot or plinked to death by streaks which require no aim.

[WarZ]

Im arguably an excellent shot. Hitting a light is not a problem. Causing damage is.

I wholeheartedly agree with the OP in regards to the idea that lights do not take anywhere near the damage they should.

Ive literally layed terrific alphas and great point damage shots on lights, yet when it registers on thier armor Ive barely touched them.

That is what the OP is talking about.

[xMEPHISTOx]

Re-add collisions FTW...!

[Kutnarb]

WarZ, on 27 June 2013 - 04:48 PM, said:

Im arguably an excellent shot. Hitting a light is not a problem. Causing damage is.

I wholeheartedly agree with the OP in regards to the idea that lights do not take anywhere near the damage they should.

Ive literally layed terrific alphas and great point damage shots on lights, yet when it registers on thier armor Ive barely touched them.

That is what the OP is talking about.

Thank God someone is listening and not turning this into a "lights vs assault" my dad can beat yours up. Cheers WarZ ~

[PEEFsmash]

WarZ, on 27 June 2013 - 04:48 PM, said:

Im arguably an excellent shot. Hitting a light is not a problem. Causing damage is.

I wholeheartedly agree with the OP in regards to the idea that lights do not take anywhere near the damage they should.

Ive literally layed terrific alphas and great point damage shots on lights, yet when it registers on thier armor Ive barely touched them.

That is what the OP is talking about.

Happens against assaults too. Spiders are the only problem mechs in this regard. It isn't a light problem.

[FactorlanP]

Lights are fine.

[FupDup]

Honestly, I enjoy fighting lights more than any other weight class. I only drive a K2 and they simply can't threaten me due to their low damage output unless I'm seriously damaged or there's multiple. Even my tiny alpha of 2 ERPPC + 2 SPL tears a hole in them with every click. Spiders can often escape but ones with bigger hitboxes like the Jenner get cored out pretty quickly.

I'm not claiming to have amazing aim, because quite frankly I don't. I miss a number of my shots, even against slower targets sometimes (damn twitchy hands of mine!). It's just that it's too damn easy. All that you have to do is point and click. It ain't rocket surgery, folks.