Jump to content

seismic sensors


17 replies to this topic

#1 RFMarine

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 202 posts
  • LocationPhilippines

Posted 03 November 2012 - 06:34 AM

I know that this is just a game and for the fluff, its just a novel so between the two, sometimes reality is sacrificed for better gameplay or better storytelling.

with that out of the way, if this were real life, I would think that seismic sensors would seem to be a nice way to reliably detect mechs. Maybe a deployable sensor like the NARC. point the NARC to the ground and fire to embed it into the soil. It radios its sensor data. You need 2 or more to get a triangulation fix.

I've never heard of any such sensors in the rules or in the novels. It would totally rule out hiding or surprise like radar did for post ww2 air combat before stealth was invented. It would ruin play balance

Edited by RFMarine, 03 November 2012 - 06:35 AM.


#2 Muso ka

    Member

  • PipPipPip
  • 56 posts
  • LocationBenjamin District Babuyan

Posted 03 November 2012 - 09:46 AM

They are exists in the BT Universe...not in the BT rules but in the Universe they are available. For example, in the Novel "Riposte" from Michael A.Stackpole, Andrew Redburn used seismic sensors against Major Xong from the CC on Hunan to find him and his Marauder Mech Company.

#3 Dirus Nigh

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,382 posts

Posted 04 November 2012 - 03:13 PM

There are also vibrobombs. Land mines that can be set to detonate when they detect a specific seismic reading. Such as the foot falls of a 70 ton battlemech.

#4 Exilyth

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Bridesmaid
  • 2,100 posts
  • LocationTerra

Posted 04 November 2012 - 04:29 PM

Remote sensor dispensers are used to dispense remote sensors...

#5 YeOldeDM

    Rookie

  • 5 posts

Posted 08 November 2012 - 12:47 AM

http://www.sarna.net...Mech_Technology

This will give you pretty much everything you want to know about how a mech works.
From what I can understand, seismic sensors are just one of several systems a mech uses to interpret its surroundings and feed that info to the pilot.

"[color=#000000]BattleMech targeting and tracking systems consist more than just the BC - the system is a network of sophisticated sensors, sub-computers, and programming. Thermal imaging, light amplification, radar, laser tracking, uv tracking, and magnetic anomaly sensors are generally used as primary sensors, supplemented by seismic sensors, motion detectors, chemical analyzers, microwave, tracking, and many others, depending on what equipment a 'Mech mounts"[/color]

Having a specialized probes that only detects seismic readings would be ineffective and expensive. They would tell you that a 70-ton mass is moving through its area of effect, but that doesn't give you much info to go off of as far as identifying a target. Not to mention trying to get a reliable feed off of a little probe stuck in the middle of what would probably be a massive clusterf*** of radio signals swimming through the air of an active battlefield.

The name of the game is redundancy. Have back-ups for your back-ups, which are supplementing your other back-ups, all of which are backing up your mechwarrior's Eyeball vision.

Edited by Nines9, 08 November 2012 - 12:48 AM.


#6 Nebfer

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 248 posts
  • LocationFlorida

Posted 20 November 2012 - 05:57 PM

Tactical operations dose have rules for Seismic sensors on page 222.

#7 Karl Streiger

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Wrath
  • Wrath
  • 20,369 posts
  • LocationBlack Dot in a Sea of Blue

Posted 21 November 2012 - 12:37 AM

View PostNebfer, on 20 November 2012 - 05:57 PM, said:

Tactical operations dose have rules for Seismic sensors on page 222.

Have you ever used them? Me not. MAD or IR was always the better option.
It was nearly impossible to lock on anything with those things...maybe a jumping/running assault but thats it.

#8 Kobold

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Elite Founder
  • 2,930 posts
  • LocationChicago, IL

Posted 21 November 2012 - 11:45 PM

Seismic is great for urban maps where mag scan won't go through buildings. Hide between some buildings, wait for someone to show up, and jump in behind them with an Axman. ;)

#9 Karl Streiger

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Wrath
  • Wrath
  • 20,369 posts
  • LocationBlack Dot in a Sea of Blue

Posted 22 November 2012 - 02:39 AM

View PostKobold, on 21 November 2012 - 11:45 PM, said:

Seismic is great for urban maps where mag scan won't go through buildings. Hide between some buildings, wait for someone to show up, and jump in behind them with an Axman. ;)

City...thats where i use Hetzer and Infantry...no need for seismic sensors. :D

#10 Kobold

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Elite Founder
  • 2,930 posts
  • LocationChicago, IL

Posted 22 November 2012 - 01:10 PM

View PostKarl Streiger, on 22 November 2012 - 02:39 AM, said:

City...thats where i use Hetzer and Infantry...no need for seismic sensors. ;)


Sure, but it helps to know where they are. :)

#11 justin xiang

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • FP Veteran - Beta 1
  • FP Veteran - Beta 1
  • 585 posts
  • Facebook: Link
  • LocationTexas

Posted 22 November 2012 - 06:51 PM

You have the option to play with seismic sensors in regular board game, as well as magscan. Really handy for fighting in a city. Magscan works wonders on hills and trees. Those things in the novels usually exist in the boardgame as well.

Edited by justin xiang, 22 November 2012 - 06:52 PM.


#12 Thoal

    Member

  • PipPip
  • 27 posts
  • LocationGermany

Posted 29 May 2013 - 09:44 AM

Seismic Sensors without a counter module or a limitation of 150 meters is the worst module in game. It takes out the oppurtunity to flank and sneak behind the enemy completly. A module that report in a radius of 400 meters an enemy advance is like a wallhack. No more suprise of an good advance on an enemy sniper/Lrm position or a camping group without beeing detected at a distance where the enemy has plenty time to act on the threat.

Light mechs and mediums are now more vulnerable as they were and their role is reduced to stay with the group and eventually spot enemy mechs. So far so good, but no more armed raid with a pack of lights or fast mediums without running in a trap. The game becomes more and more calcuable with this kind of modules without any counter or limitation. The module benefits the PPC/Gauss/LRM trench fights. No more surprise on the battlefield. The only possibility to march on a line and face the enemy is like fighting in the 17th century. Verry challenging. You can flank yes sure but not without being detected.

On maps like frozen city, river city day/night or forrest colony the module is absurd. No more rushing through tunnel or canyon without being detected. No more set up a trap without standing completly still or shut down mech. A range of 400 meters is ridicoulous.

I think iam not the only one who think this way about this. Balance or counter this module to improve the gameplay.

#13 Vodrin Thales

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Bad Company
  • 869 posts
  • LocationFlorida

Posted 29 May 2013 - 09:47 AM

Nice thread necro.

#14 StalaggtIKE

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The Raider
  • The Raider
  • 2,304 posts
  • LocationGeorgia, USA

Posted 29 May 2013 - 11:37 AM

At the very least, the range should greatly be reduced. They could implement a system where the lighter a mech, the closer he must be in order to be picked up by the sensor. While heavier mechs light up the sensors from further away.

#15 James Montana

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The 1 Percent
  • The 1 Percent
  • 295 posts
  • LocationAustin, Texas

Posted 29 May 2013 - 12:23 PM

Seismic sensors rock!

#16 Mazzyplz

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Ace Of Spades
  • 3,292 posts

Posted 29 May 2013 - 12:38 PM

i'm running advanced seismic on the AWS8T and it makes that assault relevant in my playbook once again.
i think i don't have it on one of my other 2 good mechs at all

#17 Skylarr

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Knight Errant
  • Knight Errant
  • 1,646 posts
  • Google+: Link
  • LocationThe Restaurant at the End of the Universe

Posted 29 May 2013 - 05:47 PM

Quote

Targeting-Tracking System (TTS), also known as Advanced Fire Control system (AFCS) , is the system that controls weapons fire from a combat unit. Introduced circa 2439, all combat units (BattleMechs, Combat Vehicles, AeroSpace Fighters, Battle Armor, etc.) include an Advanced Fire Control system as part of their basic cockpit/command center.

As Industrial 'Mechs and Support Vehicles are designed primarily for non-combat use, they usually do not include any Fire Control system. These units can be equipped with an Advanced Fire Control/TTS system however. For IndustrialMechs this is a simple swap operation, but Support Vehicles use a version that isn't as compact. The Advanced Fire Control system for Support Vehicles weighs ten percent of the total of all the heavy (non-infantry) weapons mounted on the vehicle. (An Advanced Fire Control system for a Support Vehicle mounting only a Gauss Rifle would weigh 1.5 tons.) A support vehicle may use a less effective form of fire control (known as Basic Fire Control system) that weighs five percent of the total of all non-infantry weapons mounted on the vehicle. This lighter system isn't as capable as the Advanced Fire Control system. (See Game Notes for restrictions.)

The Advanced Fire Control System or Targeting and Tracking System allows the unit carrying it to use Artemis IV FCS, Artemis V FCS, Targeting Computers, Command, Control and Communications (C3) systems, Active Probes. These Systems cannot be mounted on systems without a fire control system or with a Basic Fire Control system or (BFCS).


Quote


Quote

Sensors (Head)
When a ’Mech takes a critical hit to its sensors, add a +2 modifier to the to-hit number every time the ’Mech fires its weapons. A second sensor hit makes it impossible for the ’Mech to fire its weapons. Critical hits to sensors do not aff ect physical attacks or other electronic equipment mounted by the unit (such as ECM suites, C3 computers and so on).

Quote

AVAILABLE INFORMATION
Any unit that is not deployed under the Hidden Units rules is visible to an opponent as soon as game play starts. Consequently, each player can see the location and general type of every opposing unit. For example, an enemy will recognize a CPLT-C1 Catapult as a Catapult, but he will not know that it is the CPLT-C1 model. Similarly, an opponent will recognize the general type of an infantry unit—foot, motorized, jump, mechanized or battle armor—but not the type of armament the unit carries.


To obtain further information about an opposing unit, a player must have one of his own units examine the opposing unit by successfully scanning it with an active probe or standard sensors, or by visually inspecting it during play.

SCANNING
Active-probe scanning provides the most detailed and accurate information about enemy units. However, when such sensors are unavailable, standard ’Mech or vehicle sensors or a simple visual inspection can reveal a certain amount of information.

Active Sensors
Any unit that has active sensors (is not shut down, its sensors are not destroyed and so on) can always tell the following
basic information without any scanning required.

Armor Condition:
How much armor is left in a given location. The sensor readings follow a color code, based on the percentage of armor left compared to its standard undamaged condition: 100-90 percent = green; 90-50 percent = yellow; 50-10 percent = red; 10-0 percent = black. For example, a player is facing a Centurion that took damage from a medium laser hit to its right arm. When the player asks his opponent what the Centurion’s status is, the opponent responds that all locations are green except for the right arm, which is yellow [16 (original armor value) – 5 (damage) = 11 / 16 (original armor value) = .68, or 68 percent (yellow)].

Heat Condition:
The unit’s current heat level. Once again, the sensors follow a color code: 1-7 = blue; 11-14 = green; 15-21 = yellow; 22+ = red.

Active Probes
Any time a unit enters the range of any type of active probe operated by an opponent, the player must reveal that unit’s
record sheet to the opponent. The player must leave the sheet face up and available for the opponent to examine as long as the unit remains within the probe’s effect radius.

Any unit mounting an ECM suite can potentially defeat an active probe on a 2D6 dice roll against a Target Number of 8. If the roll fails, the unit must reveal its information.

Standard Sensors
Any ’Mech, vehicle, battle armor or aerospace unit can use its standard sensors (radar, magscan, IR and so on) to examine one target (a Large Craft can scan up to four targets) within its line of sight; aerospace units must be grounded, or on the playing area if using the Aerospace Units on Ground Mapsheets rules (see p. 91, TW), or in the hex corresponding to the ground mapsheet if using Low-Altitude Movement (see p. 80, TW) to make a sensor scan. Units may make only one scan per
turn, during the End Phase. If a unit’s sensors are critically hit, the sensors cannot perform this function.

To scan a target with standard sensors, the scanning unit’s controlling player must nominate the target and announce that he is scanning it. The scanning player may ask one question about the target unit, such as how much armor it has in a specific location, its specific model number, the amount of ammunition remaining for a particular weapon or its movement abilities. The target unit’s controlling player must answer this question truthfully. Scanning questions must be easily answerable. Any question that requires the target player to perform lengthy calculations— such as “How much armor is left on your entire ’Mech?”—is prohibited. Scanning players should also be careful about asking questions that require the target player’s opinion, such as, “What’s the status on your Gauss rifle?” Target players may interpret such questions as they see fit.

If the target unit is within range of friendly ECM, the target player can force the scanning player to make a 2D6 roll to defeat
the ECM before he asks his question. In this case, the scanning player must achieve an 8 or higher on the roll. If the roll fails, no information is revealed. Forcing the scanning player to make this roll, however, reveals the presence of ECM in the area. Rather than revealing that information, the target player may simply choose to let his opponent ask a question based on his unit’s sensors.

Visual Inspection
Visually inspecting a unit is the last-ditch way to obtain information about the enemy. Any type of unit, including infantry and
units with damaged sensors, can use visual inspection. Visual inspection works just like standard sensor scanning, with
a few exceptions. First, units can visually inspect only targets within three hexes of their position. Second, visual inspection cannot provide information that could not be determined by looking at the outside of a target.

Finally, ECM has no effect on visual inspection.

Tactical Operations page 219 & 220

Quote

DOUBLE-BLIND RULES



initiative phase
During the Initiative Phase, each unit must declare to the gamemaster what sensor system it is using (Radar, IR, Magscan,
Seismic and so on) for that turn. The players can write this information down and pass it to the gamemaster, or whatever system the players determine works best.

Movement phase (spotting phase)
After each unit moves, the gamemaster decides if the unit is now visible to any opposing units.

First, the gamemaster determines if the moved unit can be detected visually by any enemy unit.

Second, the gamemaster checks to see if the unit can be detected by any enemy unit’s sensors.

If the unit is visible, place it on the map. Note that while it may be visible, it may not be able to see the unit that spotted
it; if so, the moved unit does not know it has been spotted.

Visual Spotting
A unit visually detects an enemy unit whenever two conditions are met. First, the spotter must have a clear line of sight to the
enemy unit. Second, the enemy unit must be within the visual range of the spotting unit. Use the Visual Range Table to determine maximum visual range under various atmospheric conditions. Note that the combinations of various Planetary Conditions are numerous, such as Heavy Snow Fall with Dawn/Dusk. In such situations, players should only use the most restrictive condition.

Except for a vehicle with a single crewman—which can only spot in its forward arc—all units have a 360-degree visual arc;
’Mechs have a 360-degree view compressed into the forward view screen. Vehicles with more than one crewmember can
spot in multiple firing arcs (see Vehicle Crews, p. 218). Each additional crewmember beyond the first can spot in one additional firing arc, so that a vehicle with 4 or more crewmembers can spot in a 360-degree arc.

Sensor Spotting
Electronic sensors cover a wider field than most visual checks, but they can be fooled by the proper counter-measures.
As with visual checks, sensors operate in a 360-degree arc, regardless of the spotting unit’s firing arc. Unlike visual
spotting, however, sensors do not need to have LOS to a target in order to detect it. However, just because your sensors have picked up a target doesn’t mean the target is visible. Once a sensor has revealed a unit, standard LOS must be established to the unit before it can be revealed.

With the exception of magscan, sensors will not pass through the surface of a water hex, so a sensor in a location
above or below water cannot detect a unit that is below or above water, respectively. The one exception occurs if a sensor
is located in the “body” of a naval vessel on the surface (all non-equipment specific sensors are automatically located in
the “body”), in which case the sensor can detect units both above and below the surface of the water.

The ranges of various electronic sensor systems appear in the Sensor Range Table, p. 222. To make a Sensor Check, the player rolls 2D6. A result of 7 or 8 means the sensor detects any unit within its short range. A result of 5 or 6 means the sensor detects units out to its medium range. A result of 2 to 4 means the sensor detects units out to its long range. A roll of 9 to 12 means the sensor failed to detect any units. Remember that a spotting unit may use only one type of sensor per turn, which is declared to the gamemaster at the start of the turn (see p. Initiative Phase, p. 221).

Vehicles have access to sensor systems similar to those used on ’Mechs, but in most cases these systems have shorter ranges, reflected in the Sensor Range Table. Conventional infantry units do not have access to electronic sensors (see Sensor Range Table, above).

Unless specifically noted otherwise on the Sensor Range Table, no objects (hills, building, trees and so on) block sensors.

Seismic Sensors:
A unit must have expended MP (of any type) during the Movement Phase of the turn in which the Sensor Check is made in order to be detected by a seismic sensor (this includes units landing in a hex after expending Jumping MP. Airborne units (including units expending VTOL MP) and submerged units (provided they are not moving along the bottom of the water hex) cannot use seismic sensors, and they cannot be spotted by seismic sensors.

If using Planetary Conditions, seismic sensors cannot be employed during any turn that an earthquake or meteor shower occurs on the playing area.

Infrared Sensors:
When using infrared sensors, any time a unit that tracks heat is “hot,” it can be more easily detected. For each heat-induced MP modifier on the target, the range of a sensor is expanded for that unit(s) by 1 hex; add 1 additional hex if the unit has been hit by an inferno attack, or is standing in a hex that is on fire. For example, a player is using a ’Mech IR sensor and rolls a 5, resulting in detection of any unit in that sensor’s medium range bracket (hexes 11–20). However, a ’Mech with 15 points of heat (inflicting a –3 MP modifier) is at hex range 8, three hexes away from the medium range bracket. The infrared sensor spots the “hot” unit. If the ’Mech only had 14 points of heat, or if it was at hex range 7 (four hexes away from the medium range bracket), it would have remained undetected.

If using Planetary Conditions that affect the temperature of heat-tracking units, also apply the following rules: for each –1 Heat Point applied per turn, the range of a sensor is expanded for that unit(s) by 1 hex; for each +1 Heat Point applied per turn, the range of an IR sensor is shrunk for that unit(s) by 1 hex (as described above).

Units that are not “hot” cannot be detected by an IR sensor scan.

Magscan Sensors:
If magscan sensors are being used, any unit (except conventional foot and jump infantry) within range is spotted regardless of LOS, unless a hill or building blocks LOS, in which case the sensor cannot detect the target unit. It can detect a unit through any number of woods/ jungle hexes.

When using magscan sensors, the larger a unit is, the more easily it can be detected. For any unit from 80 to 100 tons, the range of the sensor is expanded for that unit(s) alone by 1 hex (as described above for infrared sensors). For any unit from 101 to 1,000 tons, the range of the sensor is expanded for that unit(s) alone by 2 hexes. For any Large Craft or Large Naval Vessel, the range of the sensor is expanded for that unit(s) alone by 3 hexes.

Units that weigh less than 20 tons cannot be detected by a magscan sensor, including all infantry.

If using Planetary Conditions, a magscan will not detect a unit that occupies a Heavy Industrial Zone hex.

Tactical Operations pages 221 - 224


#18 That Dawg

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • FP Veteran - Beta 1
  • 1,876 posts

Posted 28 June 2013 - 04:40 AM

[color=#959595]SOLUTION:[/color]
[color=#959595]Keep the range, reduce the ACCURACY! You shouldn't be able to pin-point track an enemy 'Mech 250+ Meters away on the other side of three buildings, but you SHOULD be able to use the module to tell (Assuming he's moving) that there's [/color]something somewhere in that direction [color=#959595]and that it's about ___Meters away. Introduce some inaccuracy into it, artificially if you[/color]
[color=#959595]have to, but I'd much rather see it done realistically.[/color]

[color=#959595]IDEAS:[/color]
[color=#959595]1. Randomly 'adjusting' the signatures x number of meters in a random direction, perhaps based on 'Mech speed. This would remove the ability to pin-point enemy positions.[/color]
[color=#959595]2. Changing the radar notification to something like a cardinal-directional ping, boiled down to front, left, right, and back. Giving ping with increasing frequency and strength based on how much tonnage is in that direction and how fast it's moving.[/color]
[color=#959595]3. Making it only work when standing still. This is NOT my preferred suggestion as I believe it will lead to 'camping' in a huge way.[/color]





1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users