38 replies to this topic

[Dashwood Fox]

The RVN-2X and RVN-4X need a slight engine buff to make them more viable as scouts. I'm not asking that they be given the ability to mount a 295XL (though that would be nice) but something like a 280XL would be appreciated.

That way they could at least match the speed of a Trebuchet 3C or Centurion D. I find it kind of ridiculous that mediums of that size (that aren't Cicadas) can outrun them as is.

Edited by Dashwood Fox, 28 June 2013 - 05:32 PM.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

Yes please, they suck. I named mine Fodder and Fodder v2. And I've sold them once I finished up basics because they are quite literally a waste of a mechbay.

[General Taskeen]

That's why full-out engine customization causes issues. Gotta go fast, gotta go fast! And thus the 'engine max formula' gimps certain Mechs because the gotta go fast full min/maxed Mechs get more Gotta Go Fast™.

Edited by General Taskeen, 28 June 2013 - 03:33 PM.

[Asakara]

Posted on April 3rd:

http://mwomercs.com/...4x-need-a-buff/

Wolf87535 said:

The raven 2x and 4x really need a buff of some sort. Slower than other light mechs, less hard points than a Jenner, at least the Spiders have good jumping and a small profile! So what do these two Raven variants do? Die mostly. At least give them a top engine cap like the 3L or Jenner! Or better yet, switch the max engine size of the 3L and the 2x/4x. Or maybe an extra missile hard point where the SRM6 is, the Commando 1D has 2 hard points for a single SRM6, so it is not unprecedented. I am not saying they need a complete overhaul, just a little something. C'mon PGI, throw us Raven fans something other than the 3L!

Garth Erlam said:

Wolf87535, I think you will be happy in a patch or two.

Now I may be mistaken but we have had more than "a patch or two" between April 3rd and June 28th.

[Deathlike]

Do not trust the man in the Cicada. You will be disappointed.

[Funkadelic Mayhem]

yes please!

[Cymbaline]

I can't not post in a RVN-2X thread!

I use the RVN-2X almost all the time now. It's a good mech and in the right hands and some luck it can be just as dangerous any other light.

The two tournaments I competed in, the week long one and the heavy vs. world were in the 2X almost exclusively. The only other mech I used was my 3L for maybe 10 games combined out of frustration. I placed 7th in the week long one and 10th in the heavy vs. world.

The real bummer out of the Raven family is the 4X. I can't make that mech work with any setup. It even feels sluggish compared to the 2X. The jumpjets are not really a help either since everyone aims for your legs anyway. If they had to choose between which Raven to buff they 4X would be the one that would need it the most.

With all of the PPCs flying these days playing the 2X has become a lot more difficult and I feel like I'm working more than playing sometimes. If I lose focus even for a few seconds I will be missing a leg and dead soon after.

I don't think the 2X and 4X are supposed to be as fast as the 3L but I think it would be neat to make them accelerate faster and turn sharper instead of increasing their speed. That would give them some personality and make it a little easier to dodge and fake out the big mechs.

If the 2X and 4X got an engine increase I would be estatic! The 3L is a beautiful mech and better in every way but I just feel cheap using it even after it has been weakened so much. If the 2X were faster I wouldn't even think of going back to the 3L and it would make the game more fun for me.

[Coralld]

I have been saying this sense, well, forever.

The 2X is actually a rather decent mech. I have mine with a SSRM, 3 ML, PPC, BAP, and the largest engine I can put into it which is the XL245. The only down side is the shear lack of speed, other wise its a nasty strike mech, and I would be more then happy to either remove BAP or swap my PPC for a LL if it meant I could put a bigger engine in it.

The 4X, well, MGs just need to be flat out better before this mech can be useful even with a larger engine if you want to use its ballistic hard points with out gimping your self to much.

[redreaper]

never understood why the best variant(3L) got the largest engine cap while the others didnt.

Edited by redreaper, 28 June 2013 - 05:21 PM.

[One Medic Army]

General Taskeen, on 28 June 2013 - 03:31 PM, said:

That's why full-out engine customization causes issues. Gotta go fast, gotta go fast! And thus the 'engine max formula' gimps certain Mechs because the gotta go fast full min/maxed Mechs get more Gotta Go Fast™.

So light mechs that can't go fast suck, because if they could all go fast the slow ones would suck.

I'm missing what I feel is an essential connecting piece of your argument here.

Lights need to go fast because via TT build rules each and every chassis has an efficient speed to aim for. Going 4/6 in a 55tonner is strictly inferior to 4/6 in a 65 or 70tonner in TT, but the 70tonner costs more BV. Here we don't have BV, we don't have tonnage limtis. If you're not doing something in your chassis that a different chassis can't do better then you're not reaching your full potential.

This from someone who doesn't PPC-Gauss boat, I still recognize optimal builds and the rules and limitations that drive them.

[Dashwood Fox]

Asakara, on 28 June 2013 - 03:36 PM, said:

Posted on April 3rd:

http://mwomercs.com/...4x-need-a-buff/
[/size]

Now I may be mistaken but we have had more than "a patch or two" between April 3rd and June 28th.

I sure hope this potential buff is true.

Cymbaline, on 28 June 2013 - 04:51 PM, said:

I can't not post in a RVN-2X thread!

I use the RVN-2X almost all the time now. It's a good mech and in the right hands and some luck it can be just as dangerous any other light.

The two tournaments I competed in, the week long one and the heavy vs. world were in the 2X almost exclusively. The only other mech I used was my 3L for maybe 10 games combined out of frustration. I placed 7th in the week long one and 10th in the heavy vs. world.

The real bummer out of the Raven family is the 4X. I can't make that mech work with any setup. It even feels sluggish compared to the 2X. The jumpjets are not really a help either since everyone aims for your legs anyway. If they had to choose between which Raven to buff they 4X would be the one that would need it the most.

With all of the PPCs flying these days playing the 2X has become a lot more difficult and I feel like I'm working more than playing sometimes. If I lose focus even for a few seconds I will be missing a leg and dead soon after.

I don't think the 2X and 4X are supposed to be as fast as the 3L but I think it would be neat to make them accelerate faster and turn sharper instead of increasing their speed. That would give them some personality and make it a little easier to dodge and fake out the big mechs.

If the 2X and 4X got an engine increase I would be ecstatic! The 3L is a beautiful mech and better in every way but I just feel cheap using it even after it has been weakened so much. If the 2X were faster I wouldn't even think of going back to the 3L and it would make the game more fun for me.

I use the 2X a lot still too. I used it in the last tournament in rotation with 3 Jenners. But today I wouldn't bring it in a competitive 8-man drop. Other than having more missile tubes the 2X has no advantage over a JR7 K or D. Because of it's slow speed and lack of JJs it doesn't make an ideal scout either. It's too slow to escape, especially when there are 3 mediums that can run it down. It's only effective role is basically fire support for a small group engaged in a brawl. And that's only if a weight restriction is in effect for that match. Otherwise there are so many other better options.

I found a (relatively) effective build for the 4X: 2 MPLS, SRM6+Artemis, 2 MGs, 5 JJs, 245 XL

Edited by Dashwood Fox, 28 June 2013 - 05:29 PM.

[General Taskeen]

One Medic Army, on 28 June 2013 - 05:21 PM, said:

So light mechs that can't go fast suck, because if they could all go fast the slow ones would suck.

I'm missing what I feel is an essential connecting piece of your argument here.

Lights need to go fast because via TT build rules each and every chassis has an efficient speed to aim for. Going 4/6 in a 55tonner is strictly inferior to 4/6 in a 65 or 70tonner in TT, but the 70tonner costs more BV. Here we don't have BV, we don't have tonnage limtis. If you're not doing something in your chassis that a different chassis can't do better then you're not reaching your full potential.

This from someone who doesn't PPC-Gauss boat, I still recognize optimal builds and the rules and limitations that drive them.

What I'm saying is simple.

I want a stock mode.

I'm sick to death of min/max gameplay. Its boring and easy. Gotta build the fastest thing. Gotta build the thing that kills a Mech the fastest way. A limited mode means all Ravens go a similar speed, and more classic builds would be seen in a stock-like match.

I enjoy Mechlab, but I realize it is clearly a drug. And when you're on a drug like that, its hard to quit.

Edited by General Taskeen, 28 June 2013 - 05:34 PM.

[Gaan Cathal]

redreaper, on 28 June 2013 - 05:21 PM, said:

never understood why the best variant(3L) got the largest engine cap while the others didnt.

Because it's based on a formula derived from the TT stock variant engine. God knows why they're not based on the largest stock engine mounted by the chassis. You can rip out an replace the mech's internal structure, armour and any/all heatsinks/weapons but put the engine from one Raven in another, basically identical chassis? Ye gods no! That would be crazy talk. You'd need...cranes and...whatnot.

General Taskeen, on 28 June 2013 - 05:30 PM, said:

What I'm saying is simple.

I want a stock mode.

I'm sick to death of min/max gameplay. Its boring.

Saying it in every thread that has nothing to do with stock modes in the slightest doesn't convince people you're right in wanting one, or that it'd somehow be magically balanced (it really, really wouldn't - min/max is still min/max even if you change the max). All it does is irritate people and incline them to automatically dismiss your opinion on that basis.

I.e. you are harming the 'stock mode please' argument by doing this.

Edited by Gaan Cathal, 28 June 2013 - 05:34 PM.

[One Medic Army]

General Taskeen, on 28 June 2013 - 05:30 PM, said:

What I'm saying is simple.

I want a stock mode.

I'm sick to death of min/max gameplay. Its boring and easy. Gotta build the fastest thing. Gotta build the thing that kills a Mech the fastest way. A limited mode means all Ravens go a similar speed.

I enjoy Mechlab, but I realize it is clearly a drug. And when you're on a drug like that, its hard to quit.

There's good and bad mechs in stock mode too.
The 2X and 4X will still be terrible in stock mode.
Stock mode is something nice, but don't act like chassis and loadout imbalances aren't present there too.

[General Taskeen]

One Medic Army, on 28 June 2013 - 05:34 PM, said:

There's good and bad mechs in stock mode too.
The 2X and 4X will still be terrible in stock mode.
Stock mode is something nice, but don't act like chassis and loadout imbalances aren't present there too.

Why because PGI balanced stock mechs poorly? Yup, that's the main culprit.

Gaan Cathal, on 28 June 2013 - 05:32 PM, said:

I.e. you are harming the 'stock mode please' argument by doing this.

I'm not harming anything, actually. Simply stating facts. The customization present is a just a sugar-coated MW3/4 system with a hard-point system and a made-up engine variant limit. There is nothing about 'convincing rightness' in wanting a mode.

Edited by General Taskeen, 28 June 2013 - 05:43 PM.

[Dashwood Fox]

General Taskeen, on 28 June 2013 - 05:30 PM, said:

What I'm saying is simple.

I want a stock mode.

I'm sick to death of min/max gameplay. Its boring and easy. Gotta build the fastest thing. Gotta build the thing that kills a Mech the fastest way. A limited mode means all Ravens go a similar speed.

I enjoy Mechlab, but I realize it is clearly a drug. And when you're on a drug like that, its hard to quit.

Not really on topic but I would support a stock mode. Especially for tournaments and the like. I ran into so many meta builds in the tournament which made a few of those matches less than fun.

[One Medic Army]

General Taskeen, on 28 June 2013 - 05:35 PM, said:

Why because PGI balanced stock mechs poorly? Yup, that's the main culprit.

Tabletop balanced stock mechs poorly if everyone gets 1 mech of their choice and you don't use BV or tonnage limits.
Don't put all the blame on PGI, most of the TT mechs are designed to suck and be sub-optimal.
There's a few that don't they will be the goto mechs in stock mode.

[Gaan Cathal]

General Taskeen, on 28 June 2013 - 05:35 PM, said:

Why because PGI balanced stock mechs poorly? Yup, that's the main culprit.

No. No it's not. The imbalances won't necessarily be the same as TT, but TT Battletech is...not brilliantly balanced. And then when you remove BV from the equation is gets worse.

Also, still wildly off topic. Ontopic: The RVN-2X and -4X need reasonable engine size brackets to be really viable lights in any real sense, anecdotal evidence from a couple of particularly good pilots who'd still be better in a -3L or JR7 aside.

Edited by Gaan Cathal, 28 June 2013 - 05:45 PM.

[FupDup]

One Medic Army, on 28 June 2013 - 05:38 PM, said:

Tabletop balanced stock mechs poorly if everyone gets 1 mech of their choice and you don't use BV or tonnage limits.
Don't put all the blame on PGI, most of the TT mechs are designed to suck and be sub-optimal.
There's a few that don't they will be the goto mechs in stock mode.

Yup, there are only a couple of stock gems out there that are designed intelligently; all of the other ones suck *** because of deliberately-installed weaknesses. Here is the posterboy of the smart stock mechs:

[General Taskeen]

One Medic Army, on 28 June 2013 - 05:38 PM, said:

Tabletop balanced stock mechs poorly if everyone gets 1 mech of their choice and you don't use BV or tonnage limits.
Don't put all the blame on PGI, most of the TT mechs are designed to suck and be sub-optimal.
There's a few that don't they will be the goto mechs in stock mode.

Mistakes were made, and I'll point them out. A. The Engine Variant Limit is made up, I used to run a super 2X in Closed Beta and B. Classic Designs can be balanced by thinking outside the box and not sticking to straight damage values. Aspects of full Battletech are also missing, where weapon limited or slow Mechs ram into things, melee, or jump on them, etc.

And I am entirely on topic. The 4X, for example, is not just gimped by speed, it is gimped by poor balance of the MG. If they were done right, those 2 MG's were be nice to keep on the 4X as a close in weapon vs. other Light Mechs. The 4X is also gimped by hovering Jump Jet's that don't give full on mobility fun and use. All of these things, from a stock stand point, could and can be fixed. It wouldn't matter if it was slow, if JJ's could propel it beyond its Max Speed, in short bursts, with a slower engine for instance.

A slow Cougar Mech, a 35 ton Mech, in MW4 is very maneuverable with JJ's for instance, so it can actually dodge missiles or incoming fire. What if a Raven-4X could dodge also with proper balance in order to offset its stock engine?

Edited by General Taskeen, 28 June 2013 - 05:56 PM.