81 replies to this topic

[The Mechromancer]

Good choice!

5 medium lasers,

Double HSs

2 SRM4s

And the biggest standard engine you can cram in there.

Great brawler, has more armor than some heavy.

[Ningyo]

AMS does work, and it also helps protect your teammates. Only in very rare cases with tons of missile boats will you run out of 1 ton of ammo so don't bother with more than that. In game AMS will shoot down an average of around 7-8 LRM missiles fired at you. It will shoot down 0-3 streaks depending on distance and timing of fire.

It fires at any enemy missile within range regardless of where it is aimed, so standing near an enemy mech firing missiles you will try to shoot them down as they leave the launcher even if they are fired at someone not near you.


As to build HBK-4SP is probably the first thing I would go for. I would try 5-10 games like that to see how you like SRMs (right now they are fairly weak, many players are trying to get devs to raise there damage) Then I would switch both SRMs for 2 Streak SRM launchers and the 3 tons of ammo for 2 tons of streak ammo. Use the rest of your free tons to add 4 double heat sinks, and try this for a bit. You can also add endosteel to add a few more double heatsinks to either.

You can use the 260 engine instead if you want at the cost of 1 less heatsink. Definitely switch to double heatsinks before changing anything else, the difference is huge.

[Koniving]

Slorch, on 28 June 2013 - 11:48 PM, said:

so I got the 4sp how should I play it?


edit and dose the AMS work on all missles or just lock on's?

For fun this is back when brawling was the meta (trend). Here, our 4 assaults died very rapidly (this starts seconds before I die) and it leaves 2 mediums (to include a Hunchback 4SP) and 2 heavies against 7 assaults (6 of the Atlas DD-Cs; kings at the time) and a Raven 3-L (virtually impossible to hit due to lag shields and bad hitboxes at the time). Link here. It is an intense fight and what I miss the most about older MWO. Keep in mind at the time there was no lag compensation, so "spreading" your laser beams was almost required to register hits. Now, spreading your beams is the worst idea you can possibly do.
Shards the Broken's build uses 2 small lasers in the arms, one medium laser in the head, and twin SRM-6. It's apparently build for no heat build-up on Caustic Valley (so he can fire forever without heat issues). Likely a standard 260 engine.

Classic 4SP gameplay from closed beta, with an inserted computer voice because at the time we didn't have one. Standard 200 engine (we didn't have XLs or double heatsinks at the time so the smaller engines were required to fire more lasers).


And finally much more modern 4SP gameplay in a Hunchpack (pack of Hunchbacks). The video is in a split-screen (I'm left with a 4P). The 4SP is on the right and piloted by Lordred (who takes the screenshots of me I always use).


Lordred's build appears to use 2 SRM-6s and 4 medium lasers. No head laser (likely to keep it cooler). He has the weapon groups assigned left and right torso, and I guarantee a standard 260 engine is installed.

In the above split-screen video you don't get to see it much but one of the Hunchbacks has twin PPCs and twin SRM-6s on a 4SP. It apparently worked very well and that was before PPCs were super popular (at the time they fired faster too and for more heat per shot).

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AMS will shoot at:

• LRMs.
  
• Streak SRMs.

It will not shoot at:

• SRMs.

It will fire regardless of whether you get a missile warning or not, so long as it can detect the missiles that have lockon.

It will fire on missiles going for your teammates.

It will prioritize missiles going for you.

AMS stacks up, so the closer you are to your team the more missiles you can shoot down. Through live matches, 5 AMS makes you practically impenetrable against a single missile boat alpha striking 40 to 50 missiles at a time.

It will fire on dumb-fired LRMs.

It will NOT fire if you are shut down.

AMS can be destroyed, make sure it is not the only thing in the same section.

AMS ammo explosions can be devastating; whenever possible stuff it in the head (if it explodes while anywhere near full you'll die anyway; here it won't explode unless you're already dead!)

[Tor Gungnir]

How much ASM ammo would one need to bring? I currently stack two "ammo" totalling 2000 rounds.

Too much, too little?

Edited by Tor Gungnir, 29 June 2013 - 11:11 AM.

[Koniving]

Depends. General rule of thumb is one per AMS. If you plan on staying really far from the fight (you're a missile boat or sniper) having an extra ton of AMS ammo couldn't hurt (in case if they have lots of missile boats).

So if you have one AMS, one ton would normally be sufficient. Two AMS, two tons (as you burn through it twice as fast). I rarely ever run out of AMS ammo, but I close in on missile boats fast and take them out early.

Edited by Koniving, 29 June 2013 - 11:18 AM.

[Ningyo]

Go with only 1 ton of AMS, IF you find you are running out most games (very unlikely, I run out maybe 1:50 games) Then you may wish to add a second.

Even in an atlas go with only 1 ton unless you find you are running out of ammo often, right now while you do see a reasonable amount of missiles they are not common enough to need multiple tons of ammo except in rare cases.

Edited by Ningyo, 29 June 2013 - 02:47 PM.

[Tor Gungnir]

I'm an Atlas so I'm not the quickest when it comes to closing distance.

[Koniving]

Tor Gungnir, on 29 June 2013 - 02:43 PM, said:

I'm an Atlas so I'm not the quickest when it comes to closing distance.

The most terrifying Atlas is the fast one with lots of fast firing weapons and super low heat generation.

[Slorch]

thanks for the help any tips on the load out?

[Koniving]

The simplest loadout for your 4SP is 4 medium lasers (or 4 small pulse lasers, they shoot faster and don't need to be held as on target as long) + 2 SRM-6s with a standard 260 engine and double heatsinks. Maximum armor. Allocate more armor to the front, but leave around 10 on rear center and 8 on each rear side. Do not skimp on leg armor.

This is a superbly simplistic build that can serve as a foundation.

Edited by Koniving, 29 June 2013 - 04:48 PM.

[Tor Gungnir]

Wouldn't Small Pulse Lasers have waaaaay shorter range than regular Medium Lasers?

[Koniving]

Oh yes. But they require only a half second of sustained impact to generate the full 3 damage. A medium laser must be maintained on the target for 1 full second to generate 5 damage. And trust me, unless the target is perfectly still and shut down that is not a possibility.

They also shoot faster. So between less time to maintain exactly where you are hitting your target and being able to shoot faster while generating less heat... it's a no brainer. You also have to be within about 90 meters for maximum effect from your SRMs to reduce the scatter. So if you're in good range for your SPL, you're in ideal range for the missiles too.

Check out the two videos above in a previous post of mine. The bottom one has side by side SPLs and Medium Lasers. Notice even as skilled as Lordred is, he can't hold the lasers still on one body part? The beam length is too long, so the damage gets spread out. The SPL dishes it out so fast it's like having a cannon that says "whomp whomp whomp."

Edited by Koniving, 29 June 2013 - 05:11 PM.

[Slorch]

can you suggest a build for the cplt-c4?

[Koniving]

Most of the ones I use require an XL 300 to 315 engine, which costs as much as the mech itself.

• Small lasers to small pulse or medium pulse (needs to deal damage quickly, it's your anti-light weapon).
  
• BAP CT,
  
• 2 Streaks in both arms (4 total),
  
• AMS with one ton ammo,
  
• double heatsinks,
  
• as many missiles as you can carry (stuff in your feet until you get an XL engine)
  
• but don't forget heatsinks to keep it cool. Aim for an efficiency above 1.3 and you should be okay.
  
• If you need more weight equip Endo Steel (it's the icon to the far right with the + on it, that's upgrades).

BAP lets you fire streaks at enemy ECM within 0 to 150 meters.


This can work well enough even with a standard engine.

If you're not into brawling or have trouble getting close due to speed then:

• have SPL or Small Lasers,
  
• then load in LRM-20s just like it comes with,
  
• but then load in double heatsinks and keep it just like that.
  
• Equip BAP anyway and an AMS.
  
• Make some money.
  
• Trading a laser for a tag might help if you don't have reliable friends to play with you.

Edited by Koniving, 29 June 2013 - 05:59 PM.

[Slorch]

ok so http://mwo.smurfy-ne...f1777ec2e68b1aa that is what it looks like right now


oh and the ssrm is there for me to try it out

Edited by Slorch, 29 June 2013 - 08:00 PM.

[Hammerfinn]

Slorch--looks like a pretty good build: I'd max out the leg armor and put a small laser in the head (for emergencies )

Also, you want to get DHS as soon as you can... they'll really help!

[Ormstarr the Splitter]

POOTYTANGASAUR, on 28 June 2013 - 09:08 PM, said:

Cataphracts are extremely good. May not reccomend them for beginners but maybe try cataphracts or centurions. Here are some good things you could run with both - http://mwo.smurfy-ne...250b1afb36628b2 , http://mwo.smurfy-ne...4a240380b1dcc19 , http://mwo.smurfy-ne...d1cfed57afb1589 , http://mwo.smurfy-ne...8b3cdaa7839490f

Thank you for these. That double ac5 build for the CTF-4X is exactly what I was looking for.

[Koniving]

Rearranged your build just slightly. AMS ammo in a shoulder is very deadly in the instance it detonates (deadliest thing you can have especially if it's the full 1,000 ammo).

Ammo and the center torso is never a good idea, either. Anything in the CT is very likely to be destroyed. For the 4SP BAP isn't particularly needed (except for streaks or lrms).
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...5d5b49223b93789

For the legs it isn't a good idea either, but hunchbacks rarely get their legs shot out. Mechs with guarantee ballistic weapons (Cataphract 4x; non-trial, Jagermech, K2 with ACs) who have their ammo in the legs are very likely to die when you take out a single leg, due to a chain reaction of ammunition explosions.

So you know that 4SP is gonna run hot with those heatsinks.

When you can upgrade to double heatsinks and add in endo-steel. Found below.

Marcobra, on 29 June 2013 - 09:55 PM, said:

Thank you for these. That double ac5 build for the CTF-4X is exactly what I was looking for.

You mean that quad? Because the 4X comes stock with twin AC/5s.

[Slorch]

so streak or normal?

edite: and I added 1 more heat sink to each side

Edited by Slorch, 29 June 2013 - 11:10 PM.

[Ormstarr the Splitter]

Koniving, on 29 June 2013 - 09:59 PM, said:

You mean that quad? Because the 4X comes stock with twin AC/5s.

Sorry I misspoke. I meant the quad AC5s with double MLs, http://mwo.smurfy-ne...8b3cdaa7839490f
With this configuration I find myself hanging back and staying on my toes to avoid overheating in thick combat but it seems very effective at mid-close range.