117 replies to this topic

[Rushin Roulette]

Huge, on 30 June 2013 - 03:20 PM, said:

The Founder's money went outside of MWO. It went to two separate projects being developed by IGP the cold hand on the shoulder of PGI. They spirited away untold hundreds of thousands if not MILLIONS of dollars away from MWO to fund other games. How much exactly?

This is where you seem to misplace your wallet with your rational thoughts. Have you mabe thought of where the money came from to fund MWO before the founders package was even released for purchase?

When I started actually playing the game in the closed beta, the product was actually pretty advanced (I had seen far worse early Beta products before). Keep in mind, many more players were alreaday part of the Beta crew, even before I was in... and none of them had (or could) pay anything to support the development up to that date.
Where do you think the Money came from at that point? Servers needed to be rented, various PC systems needed to be purchased to test various setups, developers, marketers, internal testers, designers, office rent and many, many other bills needed to be paid to even get to that point. Its logical, that the investors who had paid for development up to that point will be taking part (or even a big chunk) of the income to get the next project(s) underway until those next projects are able to at least partially fund themselves.


P. S.

Huge, on 30 June 2013 - 03:20 PM, said:

Well we'll never know because PGI has a gag order over their mouths like 6 layers of bondage gag strapping but the estimate is much more then any BT fan would be comfortable with.

You seem to have a lot of experience in this field... please tell us more of your exploits and how your personal previous experiences of this type of SM compare to how you peceive the game (Because from what Ive heard... most people who actually practice this type of intercourse actually claim to enjoy it.... so you must think that PGI enjoy these types of posts as much as you enjoy SM in your free time).

Edited by Rushin Roulette, 01 July 2013 - 04:23 AM.

[C E Dwyer]

Huge, on 30 June 2013 - 03:20 PM, said:

Let me cue you in on a little history lesson. About a year ago MWO was just an idea. A concept. A project that BT fans adored and PGI was willing to give a go. Love was in the air and all was well. They even offered a "Founder's Program" from fans to fund the game and get it on its feet. The Gold level was literally an option to toss money at PGI to make MWO a great game. The difference between the $60 buy in and the $120 Gold was disproportionate. As in you were basically just giving them cash because you loved the idea so much.

What happened in the after math?

Delays.
Slow and broken content.
The utter absence of content promised a year ago, such as CW.
Lies. Lies such as no 3PV. But hey, it was there position at the time. So they may have meant well.
A hastily and completely doomed to tank attempt to "launch the game" in an Alpha stage.

A buck load of good all that 6 million pledge money did. Do you know why? Partily to do with PGI and their own inexperience but that we can partly forgive. What we cannot forgive, will not forgive, or should ever forget is this.

The Founder's money went outside of MWO. It went to two separate projects being developed by IGP the cold hand on the shoulder of PGI. They spirited away untold hundreds of thousands if not MILLIONS of dollars away from MWO to fund other games. How much exactly?

Well we'll never know because PGI has a gag order over their mouths like 6 layers of bondage gag strapping but the estimate is much more then any BT fan would be comfortable with.

The Phoenix package is a terrible grab deal in and off itself. No MC. No option to SELECT the mech you want. Just all and all a bad value for your buck compared to the founders. The only other reason I could see for picking it up is the idea you're "supporting MWO".

Nu uh scrooby dweeb.

You're funding IGP. You're funding Mech Warrior Tactitcs and padding the CEO's vacation allowance. The fact is they have never been and will never be transparent with how much they have to dedicate to other sources. In that fact we must answer in kind. Do not throw money at this deal because it is not furthering MWO. It is only reinforcing the idea us players will pay for anything in MWO and IGP and by extension PGI can drag their feet and offer exclusive mechs every couple of mouths for insane amounts of dosh. When they should be making a game worth spending that money on in the first place.

Vote with your wallets mech warriors. For the good of MWO do not allow them to continue this disgusting and shady means of profiting. In the long run it will only means disaster for the game we love so dearly.

For the sight impaired or those who are simply too lazy to read: http://vocaroo.com/i/s0mtK29QkS3N

Because I can't have world peace, or afford a Bugatti Veron

[Zerberus]

LauLiao, on 30 June 2013 - 03:26 PM, said:

Guess what? EVERY time you buy ANYthing you're funding some "Greedy Corporate CEO." You know who I personally think are idiots? The D-bag hipsters who complain about corporate greed then go and spend $7 for a coffee at Starbucks.

... and tweet about it from their iPad

[C E Dwyer]

Huge, on 30 June 2013 - 03:20 PM, said:

Well we'll never know because PGI has a gag order over their mouths like 6 layers of bondage gag strapping but the estimate is much more then any BT fan would be comfortable wit

I always suspected the Bryan was into Bondage thank you for clearing this up

[Bilbo]

I enjoy shooting Big Stompy Robots, I still spend a ridiculous amounts of time shooting Big Stompy Robots, and it's a great value considering that I'll be shooting Big Stompy Robots for the foreseeable future. The OP and those that agree with him are, of course, free to do as you will.

[Reported for Inappropriate Name]

iiii dunno, I could get a 6870 for around 100$, or I could spend 80 on this game. Right now the former option has a serious amount of weight because i play some other games and my current videocard has difficulty keeping it over 30 even with things turned off.

On the other hand, I really hate grinding and based on that principal this pp stuff would really be a convenience, so it's down to convenience in a very imbalanced game vs >30 fps in some games that are more balanced and more enjoyable in comparison.

Edited by Battlecruiser, 01 July 2013 - 07:51 AM.

[Biplane]

Bilbo, on 01 July 2013 - 07:02 AM, said:

I enjoy shooting Big Stompy Robots, I still spend a ridiculous amounts of time shooting Big Stompy Robots, and it's a great value considering that I'll be shooting Big Stompy Robots for the foreseeable future. The OP and those that agree with him are, of course, free to do as you will.

Nah, I'm on board with Big Stompy Robots.

[Cerebelli]

Except, you know, they specifically stated that all the revenue generated is being put towards MWO on the NGNG podcast, but that's totally not a big deal or a missing detail at all.

[hammerreborn]

CAUSE IM RICH *****!

[Syllogy]

100% of the Funds from Project Phoenix will go back into MWO. This was already confirmed.

Nice try though.

[Comguard]

Who still gives money to PGI at this point is beyond help.

It is clear by now that we will se a Hero-Marauder before we get Community Warfare. Whoever buys this Phoenix-package gives them positive feedback for their bad track-record.

Says the founder who wasted 120 Dollars but doesn't play since weeks (months by now?) because the game development doesn't progress at all. Besides new ways of earning money for PGI of course.

When I've seen Project Phoenix I really couldn't believe it, and that's meant in the non-pleasantly surprised way. They just created a moneygrab instead of improving the game. As if the Championmechs, Heromechs, Cockpit-Items, camouflage, Premium-Time, Mechbays and Consumables are not enough.

[Steven Dixon]

Some people seem to be under the assumption that if they boycott MWO (or at least refrain from purchasing certain things) that this will cause PGI (or IGP depending on who you feel is actually calling the shots) to put more priority into the things that they want such as balance or community warfare. This is not only incorrect but actually detrimental to your cause.

Companies need to make money to stay in business. We see lots of knockoffs, rushed products, P2W, ect from the corporate world because they make money. Its rare for a company to resist this and try to make a quality product. Now many people say that its worth it, that companies like Valve may be taking a risk by doing this but it will be worth it in the end. A company like Valve can afford to take risks like that, but its more dangerous for small companies. Lavishing money on a company like PGI will get them more resources, attention and priority. 'Corporate' (i.e. IGP in this instance) generally doesn't mess with a project that is successful, but they will micromanage a company that is failing into obscurity.

Lets assume that its really some corporate bigwigs at IGP calling all the shots and taking all the money (I don't really agree with it but lets go with it). If MWO starts making even more money they are going to realize that this is a valuable property, their other projects that they are stealing the founders money for (which again I don't agree with) aren't making them money yet. Their focus is going to be MWO and they are going to give them more resources. After all this is a business they are really only interested in making money.

If MWO starts making less money they will consider it less important and put more emphasis on their other games hoping that they will make money, or they will try to drum up more money by adding P2W options, rushing out half finished product, lowing quality, ect. Its going to be very difficult for PGI to convince them that they need to pump more resources into concepts that won't make them money and only may make them money in the long run. While we might agree that things like ballance and community warfare are are good for the long term health of the game they don't really help IGPs balance sheets for the quarter do they?

All of this is of course assuming that corporate fatcats are in tight control over PGI. My personal belief is that PGI is really trying to make the best game possible and really satisfy the fans because they are fans themselves. They are working on community warfare and bug fixes as fast as humanly possible. They didn't lie about things like 3PV, they simply changed their minds based on new player feedback. If this is the case then a boycott simply harms hard working men and women that are trying their best to give us a great game.

If you really want to make an impact, boycotting things like this isn't the way to do it. Voting with your wallet can be very effective, but make sure you are voting for the right thing. If you simply stop giving PGI money, IGP's not going to understand why, they are simply going to see that people are less interested in MWO. Don't show them that we aren't interested in MWO, instead make your voice actually heard. Companies do care about what we say believe it or not. Communicate directly with IGP and/or PGI about your concerns (forum rants are pretty much useless). Send them emails, texts or tweets (many execs have twitter now). Heck snail mail can help get you noticed as well. And for goodness sake realize you are talking to professionals. Keep your communications rational and logical. Using hyperbole and emotion will just make you seem like a kid or a crazed {Noble MechWarrior} (i.e. someone to be ignored who doesn't know what's good for them).

[Duncan Jr Fischer]

I love BT, and I love this game. I don't see it 'broken' as some say, and I'm content with the gameplay as it is constantly tweaked and there are more things that are getting better, than those that get worse. I'm a bit upset with all the broken promises and deadlines, as well as some unwise decisions on gameplay or design, and I clearly would want much much more of the MechWarrior of my dreams... BUT I still vote for MWO with my wallet, as I really enjoy the game and hope it will get better with this money. My best wishes to the devs, we are still counting on you.

Nauht, on 30 June 2013 - 04:46 PM, said:

You mistake me - I don't love the game.

I play it to enjoy my spare time and easily the amount of money I've sunk into this has given me that return and more.

I'm too old and grizzled to take up crusades against games. Used to do it the past then got to a point where I realised all the ranting, forum posting about changes, imbalance, blah blah was really all for nothing in the end. A light just clicked and it dawned on me that I was getting frustrated over nothing and I'd be going to sleep seething that other forum posters didn't have the same view i had.

Well now I just play games to enjoy my free time and it's so much simpler and far more enjoyable.

Besides, even if I did "love" the game the way you do, your version of the game I might hate. So I don't envy game devs - they make great products for our enjoyment but along the way need to make some money out of it.

You can't please everybody.

I'm enjoying the game and if it were to die tomorrow I'd just be playing another game. It would be a shame not to pilot the Battlemaster but I suspect I'll get over it. I don't see MWO going anywhere soon.. at least another year but most probably more. That's a great return over a relatively small amount outlayed.

I bought Overlord because I can afford it and I still enjoy the game.

Anyway, that's all I have to say about it.

Good sir, thank you for your post. I totally agree with every word, but I guess I couldn't have written it so well and calmly as you did.

Edited by Duncan Jr Fischer, 01 July 2013 - 11:21 AM.

[XX Sulla XX]

This really makes no sense. They have a business to run and profit to make. This is a good thing. They put up the original money to get the game started. Even if they did take part of the money and spend it some place else in the company that is not necessarily a bad thing. But they have already said this money will be used for MWO.

The more important facts are these. Am I having fun - yes. Do I want the game to be around longer - yes. Do I want the game to get better - yes. Well the way this happens is by the game making money a profit for the company. I know this is shocking but its how life works If every one in the game followed the advice of those on the forum saying do not spend money it would be shut down in no time. So please if you are having fun then do spend money on the game. You can still post your concerns on the forum. But just try not to kill the game by killing its profit.

[Huge]

I'm not saying don't spend money at all. I am saying get a fair and responsible product instead of shoveling money down their throats because OH MAH GAWD IF I DON'T SPENT $500 A MONTH THE GAME COULD DIIIIIIIIIIIE!!!!!!

MC included
Ability to select your mech
A clear and reasonable timeline for CW and fixes for the glaring issues we've been facing for months now

Do that and then grab deal. Reward GOOD behavior. Make a stance and tell them there is a bar they must reach before they can expect happy customers who will pay them. Instead of being BT fanatics that worship every fault or know of them but do not care and keep tossing wads of cash at them. PGI will NOT change their attitude or progress if we do not make demands of them. If you give in now they see it as a free pass to continue as they have. Which most of us can agree is unacceptable.

[anfadern]

Thanks Huge for posting this. It was a surprise to me that PGI not use the funding within the project. It would definitely make me think twice before buying the package if I had read this earlier.
However...
I have already bought the Overlord package and I am content with that as well.
I really believe that MWO will shape up and deliver a good deal of fun in the months to come!

[Lyteros]

So... we got 3rd person and consumables which were"never gonna happen!" before PGI decided they can throw every promise overboard by stating "Their position at the time".

We didn't got DirectX 11, we lost collisions and proper damage effects (some 1-size-fits-all-flamers-do-bullet-holes just recently was readded)

We have issues since closed beta that are constantly brought up in constructive ways with math, arguments, logic and even charts - which are ignored with tremendous amounts of effort, even going so far to fragmentate the forums to spread and disperse the rabble crowd.

We got patches that break things the 3rd time until they get fixed by the 2nd hotfix (like the 3 times LRMhell, that a intern would have seen on the first fired LRM salvo)

We jump from one FOTM meta to the next for one year, because balance is not even remotely achived.

We have every deadline missed, we have clans overdue for a quarter year and beeing pushed more then 1 year into the future, just like community warfare (two big pushers of the founders project by the way.)

And the best of all... this game is running obviously so good from all those PGI love posts, that my friendlist must be broken since they removed the player counter... otherwise how would it display 90% of my friendlist not playing anymore?
Which is not only the case for me, but also half a dozen people who still play from time to time and experience the same.

Yeah I totally think stockpiling money on the problems until you cannot see it any more is a good idea. It will make all of them go away. It is totally not like you dont have to fix anything if the money still piles up.

Spoiler

Yeah devs gotta eat. But they gotta deserve to be paid their food too.

[Zyllos]

I still stand on my original post about a year ago saying that I bought the Founder's package in good faith that PGI will make a MechWarrior/Battletech that I will enjoy playing.

And I stand here today staying the same thing, purchasing the Overload package, that I still hope that PGI can produce a MechWarrior/Battletech game.

There has been a lot of bumps along the way and we are still experiencing turbulance as I type, but I am hoping the future will be brighter.

Edited by Zyllos, 01 July 2013 - 01:51 PM.

[EvangelionUnit]

Vassago Rain, on 30 June 2013 - 04:23 PM, said:

You're playing MW4 already, only with upgraded graphics.

no worrys, i think they work on a downgrade, so it looks as good as back in the days xD

[GeneralFitzhugh]

Sorry Huge, but I can not agree with your position. This is a great game and my family and friends quite enjoy getting together to play. Yes I have been involved since closed Beta and as you pointed out it has only been a year. In one year PGI has accomplished the near impossible and for all your whining about this feature and that feature, so what, it was a concept a year ago with everything subject to change with objective timeframes that may or may not be achievable. Has there been problems and missed deadlines, absolutely, it happens. You mentioned CW, it is coming but how do you expect them to just launch it when there are other issues that have to been fixed or tuned to make sure everything is in place for CW. Where has the money gone? Does it matter. PGI is not a trust its a private company, perhaps you don't understand the difference. Yes I purchased the $120 Founders package and have no regrets, except for the hunchback just cant get the hang of that mech. Will I buy into the Phoenix, you bet just deciding at what level, most likely 2 or 3 as I am not into the big assaults. The only annoying thing is my fricking enter key won't work and let me start a new paragraph.