6 replies to this topic

[Thejuggla]

By "hard point balance" I mean a hard point layout similar but not exactly like mech warrior 4. Basically I think each hard point layout should be given a class small medium or heavy(in in case of some heavier ballistic not in the game yet, very heavy or assault) system would work similar to mw4 so if a small mech only mounts a single machine gun stock it will only be a small slot so an ac20 couldn't be fit there. Basically how mw4 did it I think it was pretty good, those of you that don't know I'll explain:
Small or medium laser take a small laser slot(or one slot if u played mw4) large laser would be in the medium category(2 slots) Ppc would be heavy(3 slots)

So only mechs that are known to come with ppcs can mount them, so your stalker that comes with a bunch of mediums can't just change all those to ppcs and get a 60 alpha hit. I think there should be some exceptions like I'm not saying the stalker shouldn't get any ppcs, but it would be limited to only a few. A heavy slot could also mount 3 small lasers instead of a ppc, but 3 small laser slots would be limited to only small class lasers. I used ppc to get my point across but I think this would be more of a general balancing that would take care of massing ppcs at the same time.


Edit: also thought I should mention I don't think the ammount of slots current weapons take up should be changed, just the hard point itself should be given one of the classes(small medium or heavy)

Edited by Thejuggla, 30 June 2013 - 08:17 PM.

[The Cheese]

The problem with a sized hard point system is that people will just gravitate to the chassis that can boat the most of whatever weapon is FOTM at the time.

[FupDup]

Hardpoints don't fix balance, they just make it so mechs have unique roles instead of being free-form gunbags like MW3 (this means you have a reason to own more than one mech of each 5-ton weight increment).


The way to fix balance is to do it on a weapon-by-weapon basis. All weapons need to have a single niche in which they excel above all others, but suck donkey balls in every other role. Note that some jack of all trades weapons are good to have as well, but only so long as they are also a master of none (for instance, LL and ML don't have any real specialty but also have no real weakness either).

[Sybreed]

I really agree with the idea of hardpoint sizes, but your thread title really pushed me to post this:

[MustrumRidcully]

If boating is bad, and you want your hard point system to fix this and you want still to implement stock mech configurations...

What do you do about a mech like the Awesome 8Q or the Hunchback 4P?

These mechs are designed as boats, nothing else. If your hard point system still allows these mechs, you haven't fixed anything, if boating is an advantage, than these mechs have it, and people that look to min/max will take these mechs and not all the mechs that don't allow boating.

As the timeline progresses in MW:O, and more mechs are added, you will find more mechs of this kind.

Your only real options is:

• Never add stock mechs that can boat, and remove all that already do.
  
• Use something else to balance the boating advantages.
  
• pretend the problem doesn't exist and say stuff like "people will do what is best for the game, not what is best for winning." "oh, that boat from canon? No, that would be completely underpowered in M:WO, too slow, too whatever"

Here's my hard-point friendly approach:
There are heavy and their normal hard points. There are weapons that are considered heavy and those that are not. Heavy weapons can only be fired when no other heavy weapon has been fired within the last 0.25 to 0.5 seconds, unless that heavy weapon was fired from a heavy hard point. (That time span is server enforced, of course.)
Just because a mech has a stock configuration that contains n heavy weapons does not mean it gets n heavy hard points. It will usually get less, if any at all. A 3-Gauss Rifle mech like the Thunder Hawk might get only one single heavy hard point (that allows him to fire two Gauss Rifles together effectively, but not three.).

If necessary, this can also be implemented more gradual - 3 hard point sizes, so we can handle even medium laser boats if they become a problem. (The Hunchback 4P might become one, more realistically perhaps something like the Nova - 12 MLs - could be) .

[Lykaon]

The way I would go about a hard point restriction system would be to have each hard point have the following characteristics:

Weapon class: Energy,Ballistic,Missile,Omni

Max. Critical Space allowed: This is the maximum size in critical slots that a weapon can use in this hard point.

Each hard point can only mount a single weapon (unlike MW4 that allowed several weapons per hard point as long as the max size limit wasn't exceeded)

Each chassis would have it's hard points assigned unique to variants allowing for diversity within a weight class and preservation of design roles.

A few examples of Hard point layouts using this system:

Hunchback 4P

Head: one energy hard point with 1 max critical capacity.
Right Arm: one energy hard point with max 2 critical capacity.
Left Arm: one energy hard point with Max 2 critical capacity.
Right Torso: one energy hard point with max 3 critical capacity.
Right Torso: five energy hard points with max one critical capacity each.

Comments: This Hunchback is still a medium laser boat at it's heart.A pilot could however redesign the 4P to replace it's hunch weapons with a single PPC using the 3 critical slot hard point or with some serious work make a very hot triple large laser boat by using the large hunch slot and the 2 critical capped arm slots.You will not however be able to make a triple PPC Hunchie.

Catapult K2:

Right Arm: one energy hard point with max 3 critical capacity.
Left Arm; one energy hard point with max 3 critical capacity.
Right Torso: one energy hard point with max 2 critical capacity
Right torso: one ballistic hard point with max 5 critical capacity
Left Torso:one energy hard point with max 3 critical capacity
Left Torso: one ballistic hardpoint with a max 5 critical capacity

Comments: As you can see there will be no way to make a dual AC20 K2 or a dual Gauss K2 (these builds are what a Jaegermech is for) Also there will be no way to load up quad PPCs (this is an assault mech's function go buy an awesome) You could however make a quad large laser K2 (pretty nice damage output but no pinpoint alpha) a more conventional PPC/medium lasers build or maybe AC5s in place of the machineguns and large lasers in the arms.Plenty of design options.

Unnamed stalker variant...

Right Arm: one energy hard point with 3 critical capacity
Right Arm: one energy hard point with 1 critical capacity
Right Arm: one missile hard point with 4 critical capacity
Right Torso: one Energy hard point with 2 critical capacity
Right Torso: one missile hard point with 3 critical capacity
Left arm mirrors right arm.
Left torso mirrors right torso.

Comments: This Stalker is still a boating chassis but,none of the boats can be taken to extremes due to the hard point limits.
It is impossible to mount more than 2 PPCs and 4 large lasers are the max allowed.It is not possible to load quad artemis LRM 15s or 20s but a combo of 10s and 15s is permitted.You may mount 4 SRM6s with artemis but the chassis inherent lack of speed and mobility limit the threat presented by this build conciderably.

[Otto Cannon]

Ah, this thread yet again.

Instead of hardpoint nerfing, why not fix the convergence issue directly?