15 replies to this topic

[Friedrich Wilhelm von Venhaus]

CTF-2X 'Cataclystos' with a Dogfight-Loadout

I've been working on this Loadout quite a while... as I am not absolutely satisfied with it, it's the best loadout for a CTF-2X I have crafted so far. And I'm still learning how to craft suitable and reliable Mechs.. with every piece that I change.

Obviously, my Cataclystos is a purebred Dogfight/Brawling-Type.. cause this is the way I prefer to fight my battles: Eye in eye with the enemy.

The original setup contained 2x LLas instead of 2x MPuls and 1x LPuls, also as a AC10 instead of the LBX-AC.

With this setup I'm dealing FAR more damage than with the previous setup, also I'm pulled back sometimes by the heat the Pulse-Lasers are exhaling. Additional, the pulse-lasers are better for a walking aiming-fail like me.

I don't know what I could improve so far... I'm playing with the thought of implementing an XL-Engine, but the Smurfy-Mechlab hasn't provided me with enough proof that this would really be an improvement.

So far... what do you think?

Edited by Friedrich Wilhelm von Venhaus, 30 April 2013 - 08:26 AM.

[Slots]

I am not so sure how efficient LPLas are. They generate so much heat for what they do that the only thing I ever find them amazing for is the sound they make. If you replace it with a MPLas you could fill out your armor, grab another double heatsink, and even one more ton of an ammo.

CTF-2X

Your alpha will be 4 damage lower but you gain almost 100 points of armor. This is very important especially since you stripped most of your leg armor off and then put your ammo there.

As for your mention of an XL engine: You can place an XL340 (max for cataphracts) and be under the weight of the STD 280. I do not recommend XL engines in the current environment though unless you like to play the patient waiting game. With most teams sporting at least 5 mechs with high damage pinpoint ranged alphas your side torsos will lose armor fast. I currently run my 2X with an XL340 and I have to wait for the teams to soften each other up before moving in for the kill, in the meantime I protect the snipers from flankers. I do not recommend XL engines in the current environment though unless you like to play the patient waiting game.

CTF-2X

I replaced the STD280 with an XL340 in the build I linked earlier. It has more ammo and speed as well as an AMS since I had extra tons and not enough empty slots. You will move at the stock speed of a medium which is enough to somewhat circle strafe an assault to death. You will be more vulnerable than if you had a standard engine though.

Ultimately the choice depends on if you want to zombie your way out of a brawl or if you want the ability to possibly do some slow hit and runs.

[Friedrich Wilhelm von Venhaus]

The MPuls instead of the LPuls might be worth considering. I have not had problems with being legged more often than with other mechs (people tend to shoot for the torso, and just the torso), so the lesser armor there has proven to be tolerable.

I might try the MPuls-only version, just for the sake of science... will call back after intensive research.

[Vansoth]

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...645592d01fe171f

I am not very good at this game but I have been studying mech design quite abit. Above is the link to my suggestion for your build.

-Trading the LPL for an ER PPC offers no change in tonnage but gives you a better alpha strike at the cost of more heat. I added an extra heat sink to try and offset the difference. You get more range and damage out of the er ppc. The PPC will also disable ECM on enemy mechs for 5 seconds after you hit with it. This will give you the opportunity to use your streak missles more than before.

-LBX traded for a UAC5 might just show my newness. I am not sure how effective the LBX really is in brawling but I know a UAC5 can put out lots of damage from any range for less tonnage than the lbx.

-2xMPLS traded for 2xMLs. Medium lasers are more heat/damage effecient for their tonnage than their pulse counterparts.

-Added more armor to all sections and an additional heatsink.

[Friedrich Wilhelm von Venhaus]

Vansoth, on 30 April 2013 - 09:24 AM, said:

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...645592d01fe171f

I am not very good at this game

Then we have something in common.

Adding a PPC won't do for me, as I want to keep the Loadout keen for a dogfight. I don't want to hang around and see if someone popps with his/her head out... I want to storm the trenches and give 'em a hell of a fight.
But, to be honest, if the aim were to have a more balanced mech, I would consider your suggestion.

Although the LBX has some bad reviews in this forum so far, I made some good experiences with the shotgun-like AC-Shells. It doesn't hurt as much as a AC10, but it hurts everywhere. It's scratching armor of for the lasers.

The pulse lasers have a lower but instant damage. You don't have to hold your fire onto the enemy Mech for a couple of seconds, you just have to hit. For me, pulselasers are more suitable, but I do not doubt that 'normal' lasers have their benefits for other players.

[Slots]

The LBX is the redheaded step-child of ballistics. It is not really effective unless you are within 180m. It has nasty spread and each bullet doing 1 damage each makes its concentrated fire bad unless you are point blank. I did use it and two SRM6s for full shotgunny effect, didn't work too well most of the time but gibbing lights is always fun. This doesn't mean it is not a bad weapon. I have had some good success with it myself at times and I enjoy it.

Vansoth's build should be just as effective but it has more ranged punch to allow it fire time on sniping targets. I ran my 2X with the ERPPC/UAC5 combo for awhile but it did run hot so just be careful with the ERPPC when in the middle of a brawl.

[Egoist]

There is an issue in the current meta that longer range weapons are just as good up close as brawling weapons, the uac5 is so much better than the lb10x its unreal and the erppc is just as good up close as a few medium lasers. The strong parts of the up close weapons from the tt game (crit seeking) are ruined by the method mwo uses for criticals. Strong alpha weapons that can pinpoint damage will out perform crit seekers all the time at the moment either by shearing off limbs and torsos or by criting effectively.

When missiles are "fixed" in the upcoming patch we may see a return to brawling with srms but in those energy and balistic slots you may as well equip punch through weapons which allow you a more versitile range of fighting without huge compromises on up close fights. For balistics thats uac2 and gauss and for energy its erppc and large lasers.

I have a lot of love for the lplas and the erllas at the moment because i don't mind the extra heat for the benefits but ton/crit for ton/crit those 4 weapons are kings. Ac2 and 20 builds or fast mlas or slas builds are viable on certain chassis but on a heavy you might as well take the best guns. I like the build btw but i think if your forcing yourself into a range bracket for fun other people can't really expand your build past the obvious flaws.

Edited by Egoist, 30 April 2013 - 11:10 AM.

[Tremendous Upside]

There aren't a lot of mechs in this game where I think that the common build is THE build to run - but if there are mechs like that I kinda think the CTF-2X "mini-atlas" is one of them. CTFs with XL engines are squishy as hell in close quarters fighting. If you want to snipe away from a distance, the XL trade off is fine... But against any mech with a reasonable close range punch, you'll be dead in 2-3 shots running XL. 3 x ML, 2 x SRM6, AC20 with standard 280 engine is the way to go on this one. Yes it's range-limited. It's kind of a one-trick pony, but it does that one trick so well you tend to overlook the shortcomings.

[Friedrich Wilhelm von Venhaus]

So, after an evening of testing the 3xMPL-version I can say, that it has reduced the damage I was dealing quite a bit, but has not made my life in a match longer.

Considering your advice, I'd try out this loadout: CTF-2X
Although it appears to be not as good as my previous setup... the Alpha-damage lower by 7 (!) and the heat containment is lower as well. But I'll try it out... and then call back.

[Postumus]

If you want a brawler 2X, I can recommend the build I used while I basic'd it out.

AC/20
3xML
2xSRM4 or 6

STD 280

In order to really make this work, however, you will need DHS, endo andferro fibrous. That will let you max your armor out and get enough ammo and heatsinks.

This thing is an absolute beast up close, almost the exact build I use on my Atlas, minus a single ML, and alot of the damage comes from the torso, giving you more longevity. Only thing I didn't like was the arm mounted SRMs, that takes getting used to.

[Friedrich Wilhelm von Venhaus]

Well, i changed the loadout to this one.

Significant changes to my original setup: a PPC instead of a LPL, a UAC5 instead of a LBX-AC, more armor.

After the first five games I can say: well, this one works. It really does... and it's fun. Huge fun.

[Egoist]

Friedrich Wilhelm von Venhaus, on 30 April 2013 - 01:49 PM, said:

Well, i changed the loadout to this one.

Significant changes to my original setup: a PPC instead of a LPL, a UAC5 instead of a LBX-AC, more armor.

After the first five games I can say: well, this one works. It really does... and it's fun. Huge fun.

Glad you found something you like, the uac5 is amazing and a ppc chaser is lovely for breaking through. The streaks are always handy as well. Looks a fun build, whats your average damage over the few games you've played?

[Durant Carlyle]

Love me some brawler 'phracts. I run this build (Linky) for my 1X. Slightly modified, it works well for my 2X also -- linky. I'll probably run something similar in 3D variant form to Master them out (maybe this but I haven't tried it yet).

[Slots]

Friedrich Wilhelm von Venhaus, on 30 April 2013 - 01:49 PM, said:

Well, i changed the loadout to this one.

Significant changes to my original setup: a PPC instead of a LPL, a UAC5 instead of a LBX-AC, more armor.

After the first five games I can say: well, this one works. It really does... and it's fun. Huge fun.

Have you been running out of UAC5 ammo with only the 2 tons? I usually find I run out of ammo even with 3 tons of UAC5 ammo, though I might just be trigger happy. Also, is the PPC ECM blackout long enough for a SSRM lock?

[oldradagast]

This mech was the first I bought, and it was a decent choice, though I knew nothing at the time about the limitations to the arm-mounted missiles on the Cataphract 2x.

The build I currently run has:
- Standard 280 engine
- 1 ERPPC in the right arm
- AC20 and 2 Medium Lasers in the torso
- 3 tons of AC 20 ammo and as many heatsinks as you can cram into it
- Endo Structure, of course.

It's not a pure brawler build, and it does nothing with the missile hardpoints in the left arm (though they don't do a lot these days anyway), but it gives you a hard-hitting set of close in weapons (AC 20 with 2 medium lasers) and the ERPPC gives you something to do at all ranges and, since it is arm mounted, you have better tracking with it.

Edited by oldradagast, 02 May 2013 - 08:04 AM.

[Friedrich Wilhelm von Venhaus]

Late answer @ Slots: nope, 2 tons of ammo were sufficient for me as I'm (still) lacking the skill to survive long enough to run out of ammo.

Anyway, after a time I got quite annoyed by the constant jamming of the UAC, and made my mind up for a new setup:

CTF-2X

In short:

3x MPLas
1x Gauss
2x SSRM
[= 39 in firepower]

15x DHS (Comfortable heat efficiency of 1.45)
400 standard armor-points
Endo-Steel

Been going with this one for some rounds yet, and can't tell it doesn't work for me. In long range the Gauss works fine, and thanks to the 0 MinRange it adds some damage in brawling situations as well. The MPulseLasers are doing their work, as the Streaks are doing theirs. So far... less stressfull, and a eager beaver for a notorious rookie like me.