69 replies to this topic

[BatWing]

I tried to refrain myself from posting here for a while, however I can t make it anymore and i have to rant it out.

just to let you know, I am a FAN, an accountable Customer. I just poured $100 for 25k MCs last week, just before the new Phoenix deal came out, so now I am stuck with having to buy the $80 deal as well, soon.

Yes, I ll do it, because doesn t matter how much i hate this game, this is my addiction and I will get those Phoenix Mechs.

With this said, it s sad just seeing that this game is a freaking JOKE.

3 major issues not solved for gamplay balance, and i swear to God, you don t need to be a Rocket Scientist to fix this BS:

1 - BOATING
2 - PPC / ERPPC
3 - This point has been removed to avoid stupid waste of time

Point 1: Boating
Besides an ongoing slight adjustment to balance damage, heat and other weapon aspects, is it too difficult thinking that the solution that makes sense for boating is JUST making the weapons that are subjected to be boated LARGER. More Slots. IF IT DOESN T FIT IT CANNOT BE BOATED.
This is valid for any weapon that can be exploited. Some other adjustments may be required as well but the priority should be just make them bigger.

Point 2: PPC Family
PPCs of any kind were supposed to be mostly Sniper weapons. Usually Sniper weapons have longer recycle than Assault short/medium range weapons. Apply this rule to PPC for God sake.
Also apply the rule that a PPC weapon is a BIG weapon! We see how the PPC looks like. Is a quite big Particle Cannon. It cannot be only 3 Slots. Make it Bigger so it cannot be boated, make it Slower as it should be being a Sniper energy weapon.
These 2 solutions would alrady reset the abuse actually rolling about the PPCs in general.

Point 3: Removed due to a useless flame about how good or bad are MGs - I guess we have way more important things to talk about. My opinion was misunderstood and makes no sense to keep it open.

So, these Designer Engineers, these Game Professionals, these Devs, what the hell are they thinking about "balancing"?

Do you play the game, do you QA your "Solutions" before pushing them to production?

Do not give me the BETA BS anymore because after a few hundreds bucks poured on this game this aint BETA nomore, get out of Kansas...

Edited by BatWing, 30 June 2013 - 01:15 PM.

[Appogee]

MGs? Really? You reckon MGs are one of the three biggest issues in MWO...?

Not the constant one-sided MatchMaking? Not Premades constantly roflstomping PUGs and driving new players away? Not the endless tedium cause by lack of maps?

I agree with you on boating. I think fixing boating will fix multi-PPCs. But MGs...?

[BatWing]

Appogee, on 30 June 2013 - 07:32 AM, said:

MGs? Really? You reckon MGs are one of the three biggest issues in MWO...?

Not the constant one-sided MatchMaking? Not Premades constantly roflstomping PUGs and driving new players away? Not the endless tedium cause by lack of maps?

I agree with you on boating. I think fixing boating will fix multi-PPCs. But MGs...?

Ok, I ll give you that, LOL.. MGs are not exactly within the major 3 issues. You are right when you point out the others, totally right. But I was not thinkingat those because they are SO well known that just dust them off again would not help.

Totally agree with you, however the MG aspect is part of a "recent" revamp, aimed to make it "better" while in my opinion is a total miss.Worste, added a new stpid weapon to be worried about for "unintended" benefits.

That was my point.

[soarra]

BatWing, on 30 June 2013 - 07:25 AM, said:

I tried to refrain myself from posting here for a while, however I can t make it anymore and i have to rant it out.

just to let you know, I am a FAN, an accountable Customer. I just poured $100 for 25k MCs last week, just before the new Phoenix deal came out, so now I am stuck with having to buy the $80 deal as well, soon.

Yes, I ll do it, because doesn t matter how much i hate this game, this is my addiction and I will get those Phoenix Mechs.

With this said, it s sad just seeing that this game is a freaking JOKE.

3 major issues not solved for gamplay balance, and i swear to God, you don t need to be a Rocket Scientist to fix this BS:

1 - BOATING
2 - PPC / ERPPC
3 - MACHINE GUNS

Point 1: Boating
Besides an ongoing slight adjustment to balance damage, heat and other weapon aspects, is it too difficult thinking that the solution that makes sense for boating is JUST making the weapons that are subjected to be boated LARGER. More Slots. IF IT DOESN T FIT IT CANNOT BE BOATED.
This is valid for any weapon that can be exploited. Some other adjustments may be required as well but the priority should be just make them bigger.

Point 2: PPC Family
PPCs of any kind were supposed to be mostly Sniper weapons. Usually Sniper weapons have longer recycle than Assault short/medium range weapons. Apply this rule to PPC for God sake.
Also apply the rule that a PPC weapon is a BIG weapon! We see how the PPC looks like. Is a quite big Particle Cannon. It cannot be only 3 Slots. Make it Bigger so it cannot be boated, make it Slower as it should be being a Sniper energy weapon.
These 2 solutions would alrady reset the abuse actually rolling about the PPCs in general.

Point 3: Machine Guns ( the hilarioous joke in MWO)
IMO MGs should not even exist in this game. We do not have other weapons that make sense, such as UAC10s, Rotary ACs, Light Gausses and others but we DO HAVE Machine Guns.
MGs were in the story because you were supposed to shoot at Infantry and Light Armored Vehicles on the battlefiled. But .. wait a moment, we have neither here.
So, were the MG fits in the Mech scenario? The recent Buff of damage was the newest major BS could be done. Now Spiders and Jagers boated with MGs can tear apart well protected FULL ARMORED mechs. MGs were supposed to bounce away from armor. Make Critical if the location is "naked". NOT STRIP THE ARMOR AWAY.

So, these Designer Engineers, these Game Professionals, these Devs, what the hell are they thinking about "balancing"?

Do you play the game, do you QA your "Solutions" before pushing them to production?

Do not give me the BETA BS anymore because after a few hundreds bucks poured on this game this aint BETA nomore, get out of Kansas...

1. a hardpoint system would fix this nicely

2. put heat back to origional values and add a heat penalty (dmg when overheating)

3.The Machine Gun is the quintessential anti-infantry weapon, issuing a stream of bullets at a high rate of fire to cut down opposing soldiers, while still being effective at damaging BattleMechs.

As with the LBX10, the secrets to the UAC5 would be rediscovered in the Inner Sphere with the help of the Helm Core in 3035 and the pressures of the Clan Invasion would lead to them to also introduce the UAC2 and UAC10 in 3057

Developed in the early 3060s by the Federated Commonwealth, the Rotary Autocannon is based only loosely on theAutocannon.

Edited by soarra, 30 June 2013 - 07:48 AM.

[AnnoyingCat]

guess MGs packed too much daka for you

[BatWing]

Thank you for the precious literature and historical hints.

Fact we are stuck on a specific timeline and that involve tech limits is pretty clear to every one. Fact that this is the "best choice" is still to be debated. Fact that some way of "flexibility" should be introduced for sake of better and more interesting gameplay is also something the Community would like to consider.

However, between Flexibility and making a weapon such as an MG a surrogate of a Rotary AC just because has a nice sound and is there on the weapon list, is not even the right direction.

Oh lol, yeah, I got "Daked"by MGs, therefore my ******** brain decided to take my time and express my opinion, thank you for your useful insight Cat, now go back to sleep

[Mudhutwarrior]

Appogee, on 30 June 2013 - 07:32 AM, said:

MGs? Really? You reckon MGs are one of the three biggest issues in MWO...?

Not the constant one-sided MatchMaking? Not Premades constantly roflstomping PUGs and driving new players away? Not the endless tedium cause by lack of maps?

I agree with you on boating. I think fixing boating will fix multi-PPCs. But MGs...?

The reason not many bring up the issues you raise is that most of the posts are about self not the game. People looking for exploits or to enhance their play while ignoring the fact new players leave soon after they learn the deal here. Granted some founders have stepped forward but the majority clearly support pug stomping and the hubris displayed is the sad state of affairs either PGI is working on or just grinding whatever cash they can before the inevitable collapse.

Don't know what PGI's state of mind is because they don't say but the biggest clue is the look the other way on macros. I could be wrong but out of the many I see breaking every rule of fairplay none have stopped or been admonished for it. That's why I think PGI is just getting all they can while they can with these presales for suckers.

Do what you guys want because its is indicative of society at large now. No one cares for anything past what they can get out of it. Here that is plainly obvious,. I don't see any of the three issues raised by the OP to be nearly as dangerous long term as the pug stomp kill team. Yes all the issues are valid but the greatest threat we see most every match. I run solo only and can reasonably say that if I can get a 10% win loss ratio it is a good day. Its usually 3% or less. Last day I measured it I had 4 wins and 46 losses. Most losses were stomps lasting less than 3 minutes start to finnish.

[soarra]

BatWing, on 30 June 2013 - 07:54 AM, said:

Thank you for the precious literature and historical hints.

Fact we are stuck on a specific timeline and that involve tech limits is pretty clear to every one. Fact that this is the "best choice" is still to be debated. Fact that some way of "flexibility" should be introduced for sake of better and more interesting gameplay is also something the Community would like to consider.

However, between Flexibility and making a weapon such as an MG a surrogate of a Rotary AC just because has a nice sound and is there on the weapon list, is not even the right direction.

Oh lol, yeah, I got "Daked"by MGs, therefore my ******** brain decided to take my time and express my opinion, thank you for your useful insight Cat, now go back to sleep

so you want to introduce weapons that have not been discovered yet and or rediscovered.. hmmm

[Kunae]

Mudhutwarrior, on 30 June 2013 - 07:58 AM, said:

The reason not many bring up the issues you raise is that most of the posts are about self not the game. People looking for exploits or to enhance their play while ignoring the fact new players leave soon after they learn the deal here. Granted some founders have stepped forward but the majority clearly support pug stomping and the hubris displayed is the sad state of affairs either PGI is working on or just grinding whatever cash they can before the inevitable collapse.

Don't know what PGI's state of mind is because they don't say but the biggest clue is the look the other way on macros. I could be wrong but out of the many I see breaking every rule of fairplay none have stopped or been admonished for it. That's why I think PGI is just getting all they can while they can with these presales for suckers.

Do what you guys want because its is indicative of society at large now. No one cares for anything past what they can get out of it. Here that is plainly obvious,. I don't see any of the three issues raised by the OP to be nearly as dangerous long term as the pug stomp kill team. Yes all the issues are valid but the greatest threat we see most every match. I run solo only and can reasonably say that if I can get a 10% win loss ratio it is a good day. Its usually 3% or less. Last day I measured it I had 4 wins and 46 losses. Most losses were stomps lasting less than 3 minutes start to finnish.

Rather than complain about it, and beg for "laws" against an imaginary boogey-man, take the initiative. Learn to play your mechs, and the maps. Observe. Take leadership of the teams you are on and get people moving to the right spots, focus on targets and move as a group.

It's not that hard, you just have to make the effort, as you can't count on anyone else to do it for you.

QQ'ing about it only reflects poorly on you.

[BatWing]

soarra, on 30 June 2013 - 07:58 AM, said:

so you want to introduce weapons that have not been discovered yet and or rediscovered.. hmmm

Flexibility, I am talking about flexibility on the timeline.

I am not sure the choice to "live" a "day by day" real time and stick permanently on that choice is what this game need.

Being open-minded to evaluate alternative solutions where possibly getting some step forward and giving a chance to use more interesting tech, that could be a path.

Or waiting 7 Years to have some interesting tech is another option, although i do not think this game will have that longevity.

Mind-blowing uh ?

But however, first thing first:
the scope of this post is to discuss how easy could be solving Boating and Weapons misuse and exploiting, shall we keep it on subject?

Edited by BatWing, 30 June 2013 - 08:27 AM.

[soarra]

BatWing, on 30 June 2013 - 08:24 AM, said:

Flexibility, I am talking about flexibility on the timeline.

I am not sure the choice to "live" a "day by day" real time and stick permanently on that choice is what this game need.

Being open-minded to evaluate alternative solutions where possibly getting some step forward and giving a chance to use more interesting tech, that could be a path.

Or waiting 7 Years to have some interesting tech is another option, although i do not think this game will have that longevity.

Mind-blowing uh ?

But however, first thing first:
the scope of this post is to discuss how easy could be solving Boating and Weapons misuse and exploiting, shall we keep it on subject?

answered both of those for you already

[Appogee]

Fair enough.

For fun I took a fast 4xMG (+ 1ERL) Cicada out for a run a few nights ago.

Despite my pouring lots of MG fire on targets, it was mostly a waste of time, even though I tried to aim for exposed crits :-D

[Bagheera]

BatWing, on 30 June 2013 - 07:54 AM, said:

Oh lol, yeah, I got "Daked"by MGs, therefore my ******** brain decided to take my time and express my opinion, thank you for your useful insight Cat, now go back to sleep

Please don't tell me you are admitting to posting about MGs because an MG boat killed you, because I can almost guarantee that it was a Jager-DD and that it's primary weapons weren't the MGs, but the pair of ER-PPCs or LPLs that fit in there.

Seriously dude, even with 6 MGs, those aren't the thing that killed you. Let's take a peek at some numbers.





Not that far off on matches played, ran some ER-PPCs on things other than my -DD, but almost all of those MG matches were with the 6MG boat. To be fair, some of them were before .08dmg, and some were after 0.1 dmg. Even with similar accuracy the ER-PPC is doing orders of magnitude more damage than the MGs.

I'm willing to bet that whatever MG boat killed you one of the following was true:

A - You were already stripped their teammates when the MG boat found you.
B - You took more damage from their primary weapons system, and the MGs were just seasoning.

--

tldr: Spend some time in an MG boat and then come back and tell us what you think. They're still pretty useless in groups of 4-6, any fewer than 3 is completely worthless, and yeah - save for the handful of mechs that can't use their ballistic slots effectively without them there is little point to having them in the game.

Edited by Bagheera, 30 June 2013 - 09:01 AM.

[BatWing]

Bagheera, com'on man, i do respect your posts and i overall consider your comments interesting.

I do not post this because "I have been killed by the MG Boat, gnee gnee Mom gimme a new Icecream".. man.. really ?

I just saw how the MGs are working, how they deliver damage (damage thye would not be supposed to deliver) and I think all of this hype for MGs is just ridicoulous.

However, numbers can say what they want, but if really MGs were not effective as a Boat solution, you would not see so many of them around.

But hey, seriously, MGs are really the last of my complains here!! I am surprised how ppl read and lok at only what they wanna see.

Bagheera, give me your comment about Boating and PPCs solutions.just have a laugh about MGs but for God sake, do not give me a reply where you explain me why MGs are OK, please

[Bagheera]

BatWing, on 30 June 2013 - 09:11 AM, said:

Bagheera, give me your comment about Boating and PPCs solutions.just have a laugh about MGs but for God sake, do not give me a reply where you explain me why MGs are OK, please

Fair enough, sorry dude, still waking up here. I should clarify. I don't think MGs are okay - they have to be used in massive groups to be considered "remotely viable" and even then are really only good for trolling.

I guess I was trying (and failing) to say that MGs are still crap, and all this hype about them being good is silly. Try them for a while, you'll see what I mean. Beyond that, we could probably do without them since there's no way to make 1 of them useful without making 6 of them tremendously OP.

At least as long as they generate 0 heat.

* - PPC/Boating solutions are a dime a dozen on the boards. Pick your favorite.

Edited by Bagheera, 30 June 2013 - 09:33 AM.

[Sephlock]

[Roland]

The OP's section about the MG's is awesomely hilarious, leading me to believe this is a troll post.

MG's are overpowered? Really?

[Nubsternator]

I totally agree on your first two points here. Boating PPC's becomes a freakin joke. "Here, take 60 points of damage to a single point. Here have another one." Done and sealed.
However, I will say something about the Machine guns. People are seeing the name "Machine gun" and not taking into account the thing is half a ton. That is a 1000 lb gun. A "normal" anti infantry gun is is one on a tank. That doesn't go heavier than 200 lbs. Tell me that the 1000 lb gun that shoots bullets that weigh a pound cannot deal damage to a mech. Yes, it should do more to internals. Like Bagheera said though, "there's no way to make 1 of them useful without making 6 of them tremendously OP."

The MG issue is the least on your list, and for good reason it seems. The first two I agree on full-heartedly.

[Sephlock]

No way? How about giving them a spread at the fringes of their range, with point blank range turning your mg into a buzzsaw? Basically, make it poopy at range, and an effective melee weapon (almost like a hatchet) . The only mechs that can mount six of them are the jagermech (which already has better options for dakka boating) and the spider (which desperately needs some).

[Sybreed]

BatWing, on 30 June 2013 - 08:24 AM, said:

Flexibility, I am talking about flexibility on the timeline.

I am not sure the choice to "live" a "day by day" real time and stick permanently on that choice is what this game need.

Being open-minded to evaluate alternative solutions where possibly getting some step forward and giving a chance to use more interesting tech, that could be a path.

Or waiting 7 Years to have some interesting tech is another option, although i do not think this game will have that longevity.

Mind-blowing uh ?

But however, first thing first:
the scope of this post is to discuss how easy could be solving Boating and Weapons misuse and exploiting, shall we keep it on subject?

PGI did mention they intend on doing "jumps in time" to add more stuff rapidly as the game goes on.