19 replies to this topic

[Caelroigh Blunt]

Fix the MG horepucky or I start talking down this game EVERYWHERE. You already WAAY overpowered LRMs, you need to start looking at the ACTUAL game and set up this .... thing.... accordingly. You are destroying a great scenario

[Johnny Reb]

Lrms are not op unless you are in the open and then it still takes 4-6 full 60+ lrm salvos to core an Atlas.

[Koniving]

Threats won't change much. Machine guns already do 1 damage per second, 4 of them deal 4 damage per second (versus a medium laser doing 5 damage per second [of actually being fired, not counting recharge time]). Considering it's no heat and an insane amount of ammo, it's actually pretty powerful. Concentrated fire of 4 MGs for 10 seconds pumps out 40 damage. The rest comes down to skill and catching moments of opportunity.



This score is from when MGs did 0.04 damage per bullet, totalling 0.4 damage per second approximately (as they don't actually shoot at the same rate for everyone). With 4 MGs that's 1.6 damage per second, plus 4 flamers at whatever damage they did. That's what my Jagermech JM6S had. 4 flamers, 4 MGs.

On Alpine I didn't feel like following the pack and given the troll build I was using, I had hoped to make it to their base with my standard engine and toy with a spider or something. I wound up running into an Atlas and a Dragon in the middle of nowhere while everyone else was fighting at Epsilon with their lasers and PPCs and cannons before ballistic HSR lag compensation. (Lag shield, yay!) I was the first to die, but I kept zig-zagging between the two of them, constantly using the Atlas as a shield to keep the Dragon at bay.

I was so proud of the results I stayed in the match and watched it out. I sat there listening to people telling me how stupid I was for bringing MGs and flamers, and how bad the team was so that I could get this screenshot, and it's been on my status on this website for quite some time. Check the date.

The point of this is that you have it a lot better than I did. Each MG does 1 damage per second or pretty close (depending on lag the bullets sometimes fire faster or slower). They're disturbingly powerful, actually, considering there's no heat and the bullets aren't particularly big or even focused. They work best against enemy ballistic mechs if you can sneak up on them. 4 AC/5 Cataphracts for example, strip the armor to the leg and start shooting. Within seconds you'll watch their leg suffer an explosion, then their side torso, and finally they fall over dead.

But if you're not happy with machine guns, have you considered using a different weapon?

As far as LRMs, consider using AMS or staying near someone with ECM? Remember to take out LRM-boats fast and early. It's easy to sneak up on them. Also remember if LRMs are "overpowered," then try SRMs as the two are tied together. I've noticed the SRMs are actually a lot more impressive than people seem to think they are. Turned a PPC boat into mincemeat in three volleys of 2 SRM-6s and 2 SRM-4s.

Edited by Koniving, 02 July 2013 - 06:00 AM.

[White Bear 84]

Caelroigh Blunt, on 01 July 2013 - 08:42 PM, said:

Fix the MG horepucky or I start talking down this game EVERYWHERE. You already WAAY overpowered LRMs, you need to start looking at the ACTUAL game and set up this .... thing.... accordingly. You are destroying a great scenario

Good luck achieving anything by making threats to the developers lol.

MG are great fun, much better already - 350 damage and an atlas, phract and awesome dead is not bad for 4 MG spider..

[Koniving]

I know this one's about LB-10xs but people cry about these things being so underpowered too.

Twin flamers and triple shotguns.



A match just now.

[Scout80913]

Actually, gents, he's complaining that MG's are OP....

[Aym]

LOL@ Lurms being considerd "Oh Pee."

[Koniving]

Scout80913, on 01 July 2013 - 10:31 PM, said:

Actually, gents, he's complaining that MG's are OP....

o.o; Seriously? It's that its overpowered and not underpowered? *Bursts out laughing.*

*Comes back 15 minutes later finally catching his breath, opens his mouth... bursts out laughing!!*

*3 hours later tries again, falls over laughing.* ...Wait. You're serious? 98% of the population wants them buffed, I think they're fine for the risks involved, and this guy says they're overpowered? Does this mean he got killed by machine guns?

*Walks off laughing to get some distance before he winds up dying of it!*
(In all seriousness though last night over some matches I got me 3 kills with 2 MGs, 2 flamers, and 2 SRM-6s where it was just the MGs due to high heat. But it takes an insanely long time and with the PPCs running about, there's other things that need true balancing first.)

Edited by Koniving, 02 July 2013 - 04:22 AM.

[Modo44]

Koniving, on 02 July 2013 - 04:16 AM, said:

o.o; Seriously? It's that its overpowered and not underpowered? *Bursts out laughing.*

It is. MGs are a crit-seeking weapon. They should not be capable of breaking through armor, ever. A very close analogy would be shooting a tank with an assault rifle.

In game terms, MGs will soon allow lights to do major damage without the risk of overheating. You thought a swarm of lights was bad news? Wait till they don't need to fire hot weapons to kill you.

Edited by Modo44, 02 July 2013 - 04:24 AM.

[Koniving]

From Sarna.net.
The Machine Gun is the quintessential anti-infantry weapon, issuing a stream of bullets at a high rate of fire to cut down opposing soldiers, while still being effective at damaging BattleMechs. Vehicular-scale machine guns mounted on BattleMechs can lay low entire platoons in just a few passes thanks to their high rate of fire, though they are more commonly found on Combat Vehicles and ProtoMechs.[3] These weapons are much heavier than those typically carried by infantry, but can be used by them when placed on a static mount, where they are called Support Machine Guns.[4] Battle Armor can also carry machine guns, typically upgraded versions of infantry-support weapons, which can rival their larger vehicular-scale cousins.[5]
Beyond the "standard" models Clan Smoke Jaguar was the first to create Light Machine Guns and Heavy Machine Guns, which the other Clans and the Inner Sphere eventually fielded as well. The Federated Suns were also the first to mount multiple machine guns on the same linked platform creating the Machine Gun Array.[3]

----------------------------------

MGs did 2 damage over 10 seconds, it's true. Ours at first did 4 damage over 10 seconds per MG. But that isn't enough when its long range equal AC/2 does 4 damage every second, and so on and so forth.

That puts its value as virtually unusable. Especially since the main things to crit are untouchable. Namely engine, actuators, cockpit controls, life support, sensors, and gyro.

Also all armor eventually gives out, its just a matter of how long it can endure something. For example with enough ammo and guns you can eventually get through the armor of an Abrams tank with 9mm pistol bullets. It'll take years of virtually non-stop firing, constantly hitting the same spot but it can be done.

Here it's a plethora of machine guns, and against even a Spider that's standing still it takes a considerable amount of time. We have double armor and as admitted by Russ in NGNG #79 around 30 to 40 minutes in, "Damage on all weapons is too high so one of the things we thought of is doubling the internal structure. Only we realized we've already done that. Apparently when we doubled the armor we knocked it all out in one go with the structure."


So an Atlas has 124 internal structure on the chest, combined with 124 maximum CT armor (meanwhile the Hunchback has the armor of a tabletop Atlas).

I'd still have to say the MGs are still among the weakest of MWO's guns.

[kesuga7]

Thats a boss muromets

People say MG's/LBx/Flamers are useless but people will always use em including me

but yea Machine guns are not overpowered ( it would be cool if they were tho )

[Koniving]

kesuga7, on 02 July 2013 - 05:05 AM, said:

Thats a boss muromets

There's a trick to using 3 or more of any weapon. Ages ago a slight balance thing was talked about where boated weapons were slightly weakened if you had 3 or more fired at once. Not that it does much, of course, assuming it was ever implemented but if it wasn't and you fire 3 LB-10s at once there must be some sort of hit registration glitch. The most you can fire at once and do full damage is 2. So have the two on the arms set to fire at once, and the torso one on a third mouse button. Ba-BAM! Glee. Try it. You'll find it to be a lot more dangerous that way.

[kesuga7]

i need to fix allot of stuff before i can actually play it seems :\
(well play without a broken mouse and overheating GPU with allot of dust i need to clean out)


Don't suppose that 3* LBX hit registration bug is going to be fixed any time soon :|

Tho i suspect the 'Boating Fix will be implemented before this month

Well at least i don't have 6 medium lasers on my 4P so it won't effect me...



Eddie Van Halen Laser Boat Light Show Baby!

Edited by kesuga7, 02 July 2013 - 05:23 AM.

[scJazz]

Koniving, on 02 July 2013 - 04:16 AM, said:

o.o; Seriously? It's that its overpowered and not underpowered? *Bursts out laughing.*

*Comes back 15 minutes later finally catching his breath, opens his mouth... bursts out laughing!!*

*3 hours later tries again, falls over laughing.* ...Wait. You're serious? 98% of the population wants them buffed, I think they're fine for the risks involved, and this guy says they're overpowered? Does this mean he got killed by machine guns?

*Walks off laughing to get some distance before he winds up dying of it!*
(In all seriousness though last night over some matches I got me 3 kills with 2 MGs, 2 flamers, and 2 SRM-6s where it was just the MGs due to high heat. But it takes an insanely long time and with the PPCs running about, there's other things that need true balancing first.)

I too just had to take a short break to get my breath back after realizing that...

As written his complaint is OP MG

Of course I also want to rage post that OP put this thread in New Players rather than game balance where it belongs. Also OP is an apparent i d i o t with "talkin down this game everywhere" while he can't even be bothered to spell check threat.

Great... I haven't even finished my coffee and already I hate forum posters.

[Galen Crayn]

Quote

Threats won't change much. Machine guns already do 1 damage per second, 4 of them deal 4 damage per second (versus a medium laser doing 5 damage per second)

That is absolutly wrong. A medium laser makes 1.25 dps or was it 1.6? But defintly not 5dps

Edited by Galen Crayn, 02 July 2013 - 05:53 AM.

[Koniving]

Galen Crayn, on 02 July 2013 - 05:52 AM, said:

That is absolutly wrong. A medium laser makes 1.25 dps or was it 1.6? But defintly not 5dps

You're quoting DPS which counts recharge time. I was counting actual beam time which is 5 damage over 1 second. Then 3 seconds of recharging. So I was absolutely right (you're not wrong either about the dps it's 1.25 but that counts recharge which in my opinion doesn't factor in when comparing 1 second of damage of a constant weapon [MG] to 1 second of damage of a weapon that fires and recharges [laser]). You don't count a machine gun's damage when it isn't being fired. Why count a laser when it isn't being fired?

Edited by Koniving, 02 July 2013 - 06:17 AM.

[Kekkone]

Koniving, on 02 July 2013 - 05:57 AM, said:

You don't count a machine gun's damage when it isn't being fired. Why count a laser when it isn't being fired?

The issue was probably with the term "DPS", it caught my eye also. DPS takes into account the recharge time. It's the calculated damage a weapon can dish out consistently over a period of time.

[Modo44]

The issue is, people expect a handgun, or ten, to destroy a ******* tank. Never should that be possible.

[scJazz]

Modo44, on 02 July 2013 - 09:55 AM, said:

The issue is, people expect a handgun, or ten, to destroy a ******* tank. Never should that be possible.

Go back and read OP again then read entire thread... notice anything strange?

[Felicitatem Parco]

This is a Gameplay Dalance discussion about Machineguns, and not really a guide or help thread. I'm moving this down to the G.B. forums.

I do think the MG's are good now... I like to run the 3 or 4LL + 4MG JagerMech, and the fact that MGs are cool insta-hit weapons (the little bullets you see flying are just special effects) @ 1dps makes them work very well in conjunction with lasers.

Edited by Prosperity Park, 02 July 2013 - 11:20 AM.