13 replies to this topic

[Foxfire]

I've just reconfiged my Raven 3L to add a BAP along with the ECM.

So far, I have yet to see an ECM disrupted when I am face to face with an ECM equipped enemy unless I change my ECM to counter mode.

I just want to know if anyone else has seen this or not..

[Zerberus]

Yes.

This is intentional and was mentioned in the patch notes and /or followup to the patch that made BAP disrupt ECM. ECM carrying mechs still have to manually jam enemy ECM. This comes with the advantage that they can do so at 180m instead of only at 150 or less (which is actually quite a sizeable benefit in practicce, even though it looks minute on paper).

[Foxfire]

Well.. that doesn't make any sense at all but it is good to know. Guess I'll just strip out the gear I put on with it and join in on the 'more damage is better than more utility' meta that the game has now.

[MCXL]

You turn the jammer on, and it jams you as well.

[Waking One]

Foxfire, on 06 July 2013 - 03:31 PM, said:

Well.. that doesn't make any sense at all but it is good to know. Guess I'll just strip out the gear I put on with it and join in on the 'more damage is better than more utility' meta that the game has now.

You don't think for a moment, just a moment, that maybe it would be completely OP?

No, of course not.

[Zerberus]

Foxfire, on 06 July 2013 - 03:31 PM, said:

Well.. that doesn't make any sense at all but it is good to know. Guess I'll just strip out the gear I put on with it and join in on the 'more damage is better than more utility' meta that the game has now.

With all due respect, yes it does, please allow me to elaborate.

1. you RETAIN the jamming range of the ECM, meaning you can negate enemy ECM at 180 m as opposed to 150. This is VERY useful when in a light furball as a streak user, or as an LRM mech trying to keep their lock despite a pesky Trollmando zipping around between his legs, as opposed to losing lock everytime the enemy passes into the 150-180m band, which intelligent ECM light pilots can and will do to try and break your lock.

2. You retain all other advantages of the BAP, which are the primary reasons for taking it in most cases.

3. If an ecm mech with BAP could run around countering enemy ecm while keeping their own active, that would be unbelievably OP. Trollmandos with 3x2 streaks would be the supreme rulers of the light class.

[operator0]

Besides, on a Raven you can mount every piece of equipment and the max engine and all the standard 3L weapons.
3L build: http://mwo.smurfy-ne...ea1df4026de7e75

[Foxfire]

How would it be completely overpowered? The BAP would still be a hard counter to ECM and BAP's don't cancel each other out so the suggestion that the troll commando making a come back is a bit silly. Would one mech be able to cancel out two ECM? As long as there isn't an enemy BAP in the area and the number of BAP's in the field is increasing to counter ECM in the first place so that won't have a real net impact.

The only real impact would be the light ECM vs ECM mech battles.

Lets be honest.. the only reason most people equip the BAP now is to counter ECM and the 'primary' function of it isn't enough to justify the weight, especially on lighter mechs, without the ECM counter.

What I'd much rather have is more utility out of the BAP because the 'standard' abilities of it have always been lackluster. I just find it odd that the BAP somehow loses functionality with the ECM... and the fact that the ECM only jams enemy signals show that selective jamming is in the era(as they are today).

Oh, and it is the ECM, not the BAP, that is the jammer.

[operator0]

Foxfire, on 07 July 2013 - 09:10 AM, said:

Lets be honest.. the only reason most people equip the BAP now is to counter ECM and the 'primary' function of it isn't enough to justify the weight, especially on lighter mechs, without the ECM counter.

You didn't read my previous post, or look at the smurfy build I posted did you? http://mwo.smurfy-ne...ea1df4026de7e75

Just to reiterate, you can run all the standard 3L weapons and every piece of equipment and the biggest engine on a 3L all at the same time. Perhaps you wouldn't want to run BAP on other light mechs, but what would you do on a 3L in place of BAP? You could run another ton of ammo, but I hardly ever run out. You could run another heat sink, but it already has pretty good heat efficiancy. No, BAP is the best choice for that remaining ton and a half.

Edited by operator0, 07 July 2013 - 10:14 AM.

[Foxfire]

Strip out the AMS and run either 2x MPL and a DHS or 3x MPL.

Like I said, it is a choice of more utility or more overall damage(and better damage when fighting lights)... and the BAP doesn't really offer a ton of utility for that build since it is, for the most part, a short to mid range build that is well within the the range of your sensors. You really underutilize the benefits of the BAP with this build

If you want to get the 'most' out of the BAP, then you'd go for more of a support/scouting role with TAG etc.

This is the focal point of the build that I have right now.. I can either spend 3 tons for utility(ams and BAP) or more offensive capability.. and while the AMS is nice... investing 3 tons to include the BAP as is without the counter ECM ability just isn't... useful.

[operator0]

Foxfire, on 07 July 2013 - 10:33 AM, said:

Strip out the AMS and run either 2x MPL and a DHS or 3x MPL.

Like I said, it is a choice of more utility or more overall damage(and better damage when fighting lights)... and the BAP doesn't really offer a ton of utility for that build since it is, for the most part, a short to mid range build that is well within the the range of your sensors. You really underutilize the benefits of the BAP with this build

If you want to get the 'most' out of the BAP, then you'd go for more of a support/scouting role with TAG etc.

This is the focal point of the build that I have right now.. I can either spend 3 tons for utility(ams and BAP) or more offensive capability.. and while the AMS is nice... investing 3 tons to include the BAP as is without the counter ECM ability just isn't... useful.

BAP does more than just cancel ECM out guys. For one, it extends the range of your sensors, which is a bonus on a scout mech. Two, it decreases lock-on time for LRMs and, most importantly for the 3L, streaks. Those are two benefits you will have a hard time convincing me aren't deserving of spending a ton and a half on my streak scout. In fact, if all it did was decrease lock-on time, it would be worth it. Really, you should try it. It allows you to get locks in a fraction of a second.

[Foxfire]

I'll give it another try but I didn't see enough when I had the set up before to justify going with it over pulse lasers and/or heat sinks.

[Jabilo]

BAP does not affect lock on time of missiles to the best of my knowledge.

Would be pleased to be proved wrong if you can provide a link.

Currently BAP functions are:

Cancel a single ECM within 150m
Decrease time to obtain targeting information (enemy paper doll)
Increases sensor range
Allows targeting of shut down mechs,

[Foxfire]

So far it hasn't made any difference on lock on time and the rest is... honestly... not useful at all.