68 replies to this topic

[Modo44]

Light can only travel so fast, servers can only cope with so much. Captain Obvious signing off.

Galenit, on 06 July 2013 - 11:33 AM, said:

Do you have ever played Tribes 2 or the F2P Tribes Asc.?
Around 200kph is normal for a light to sustain, you can go up to near 300 ...
Its not the internet, its the devs or the engine ...

Captain Obvious again: "150kph" can mean very different things in different games.

[skotsche]

TheUncle, on 07 July 2013 - 04:30 AM, said:

Blablabla!

Thank you very much for this interesting insight to the Cryengine. I always thought CryEngine is quite crappy (beside its look). But after reading this I really have to change my point of view.

[S3dition]

Rengakun, on 07 July 2013 - 03:07 AM, said:

It CAN do PiP. It's just that not everyone has a i7-4770K OC'd to the max with a SLI GTX Titan.

It needs to render the game world twice to do that, in case you were wondering.


Look at the scope. It uses PiP.

That's not PiP. It's just a different shader.

[Chavette]

Rengakun, on 07 July 2013 - 03:07 AM, said:

It CAN do PiP. It's just that not everyone has a i7-4770K OC'd to the max with a SLI GTX Titan.

It needs to render the game world twice to do that, in case you were wondering.

Yes, thats why they aren't doing it.

Rengakun, on 07 July 2013 - 03:07 AM, said:

Look at the scope. It uses PiP.

It doesn't. Its similar to a reflection shader. It would be easy to see it if it was interactive, you could turn around and the stuff on the scope would have nothing to do with what you have infront or behind you, its just a mess of something similar, to keep it believable.

Edited by Chavette, 08 July 2013 - 04:04 AM.

[Taemien]

Its not so much an engine limitation anymore. This was more or less fixed a while ago with HSR. But the issue is that all mechs typically go 80+ and 64 is not the average speed like it was in lore. But there is issues with slowing mechs down across the board, those of which are obvious. So instead they keep them capped.

It woudln't hurt to limit speeds of heavies and assaults imo. But they'd have to reimburse those who bought those large engines.

[Rengakun]

S3dition, on 07 July 2013 - 04:06 PM, said:

That's not PiP. It's just a different shader.

Chavette, on 08 July 2013 - 04:03 AM, said:

-snip-

Yeah... I just wanted to point out that KhanHeir thought that was PiP, but I just typed it in like that. So... bash him, not me.

[S3dition]

Rengakun, on 08 July 2013 - 04:38 AM, said:

Yeah... I just wanted to point out that KhanHeir thought that was PiP, but I just typed it in like that. So... bash him, not me.

I'm not bashing anyone, just clarifying. Unlike Unity and (as of a few years ago) Unreal 3/4, CryEngine was not built to be a generalist engine for a wide variety of games. It was developed entirely as an FPS engine. And lets face it, FPS games are a wasteland of "no gameplay and lots of fat space marines with highly detailed pock marks".

Though I hear that is changing as CryTek looks to get into the F2P market very heavily, even exclusively. They've been working on optimizing the engine, as that (in many opinions) is their biggest weak point. Much of the performance issues with MWO comes back to the CryEngine, not the game itself. Honestly, I'd have preferred that the game used the Unreal engine, but it will be interesting to see how the CryEngine evolves over the next couple of years.

Edited by S3dition, 08 July 2013 - 08:35 PM.

[Nothing Whatsoever]

GingerBang, on 06 July 2013 - 10:45 AM, said:

Alternatively, has anyone heard anything about the engine restraints for cryengine 3? It seems a foolish thing to me to release a mechwarrior game, in which there is a hard speed cap at 150kph, that kind of gimps a HUGE selection of mechs. I mean, even the Locust, what a waste of time that will be if they can't even add MASC to the game because they can't make the engine work with real battletech speeds.



Has PGI mentioned these issues at all in the past year, or any of the other engine problems, like the uber resource whoring mini-map? I really want there to be a good mechwarrior game to play, but what is even the point of almost all the light mechs if literally everything in the game is capped at 150kph.

I've wondered about this too, but do we need to go that fast in the mechs that hit that cap? I could live with some sacrifices if it helps with better matches and if the engine caps are here to stay for some time, but why not try changing out some numbers?

Starting with replacing/removing Speed Tweak with something else in that Elite Tree for all mechs, and its benefit to any mech is huge, maybe too good so I like to try something different there.
(Haven't thought of a good replacement there but could maybe something like a Torso and Arm Pitch Speed boost instead).

And if there is a need to hit close to the speed of 150KPH with Speed Tweak's removal, then why not tweak the max engine cap restriction to be higher? The (8.5 x tonnage) restriction only applies to mechs 50 tons and smaller, so why not try a (9.1 x tonnage) restriction instead? So:

• a 20 ton can max at 150KPH with a 185 rating;
  
• a 25 ton mech can max at 149KPH with a 230 rating;
  
• a 30 ton mech can max at 149 with a 275 rating;
  
• a 35 ton mech can hit 148KPH with 320 rating;
  
• a 40 ton mech can hit 148KPH with a 365 rating;
  
• and a 45 ton mech can max at 144KPH with a 400 rating.
  
• mechs 50+ tons aren't affected by this restriction, AFAIK, so the stock engine restriction remains in play for them.

I wouldn't mind testing this out.

[GingerBang]

Wow, 3 days of crap internet and i come back to all this. I are depressed.... PGI, why you no use Unreal? This just sounds pathetic.... Most of what i've read here and other places just make it sounds like the devs had no idea what cryengine3 was actually capable off. Just think of how good game could have been with great graphics, real battletech gadgets like advanced zoom, and real mech functionality all in one... I just can't fathom such a bad call being mad. They were either entirely uninformed, or perhaps weren't allowed to due to some random legal issue, like with that "game play" mech 5 trailer from '09.


I mean, this just flat out means some of the most iconic mechs like the death adder won't be allowed in the series. MASC obviously can't be introduced, or it will have some ECM like system so that mechs like the jenner which are god awful as is, get destroyed by things like ravens suddenly able to go 156 too.

Edited by GingerBang, 08 July 2013 - 11:26 PM.

[S3dition]

GingerBang, on 08 July 2013 - 11:24 PM, said:

Wow, 3 days of crap internet and i come back to all this. I are depressed.... PGI, why you no use Unreal? This just sounds pathetic.... Most of what i've read here and other places just make it sounds like the devs had no idea what cryengine3 was actually capable off. Just think of how good game could have been with great graphics, real battletech gadgets like advanced zoom, and real mech functionality all in one... I just can't fathom such a bad call being mad. They were either entirely uninformed, or perhaps weren't allowed to due to some random legal issue, like with that "game play" mech 5 trailer from '09.


I mean, this just flat out means some of the most iconic mechs like the death adder won't be allowed in the series. MASC obviously can't be introduced, or it will have some ECM like system so that mechs like the jenner which are god awful as is, get destroyed by things like ravens suddenly able to go 156 too.

It had more to do with cost. The Unreal Engine is incredibly expensive and they may not have felt comfortable with the more limited UDK. A lot was said about CryTek offering a very lucrative F2P model.

Oh, and when I say the Unreal Engine is expensive... lets just say all the money they made from the founders package wouldn't have covered the license. Engine access is crazy expensive.

[redlance]

they need to hire people who specialize in crytek. what a bunch of scrubs

[nitra]

what will tell the tale is whether test drive unlimited 2 and star citizen can pull off fast speeds or not .

but until then we dont have a lot to go on .

and as far as i know mwo is probably the most demanding of the current cry engine 3 games out there.
they may have very well hit some kind of game engine limitation where they were unable to make it work .
(why ? i have no idea as programming has become so mind boggingly stupid these days its wonder the games we have now work as well as they do )

It will be interesting how star citizen turns out as they too will be tacking some very similar issues.

and if we see the same kind of issues we will then know it was the game engine after all .

[Narcissistic Martyr]

I've always wondered why they don't just shrink the mechs and landscaping down so "150kph" is 100 kph. I imagine the limitation is from relative rates of movement between two players or something so that won't work.

[Volume]

Galenit, on 06 July 2013 - 11:33 AM, said:

Do you have ever played Tribes 2 or the F2P Tribes Asc.?
Around 200kph is normal for a light to sustain, you can go up to near 300 ...
Its not the internet, its the devs or the engine ...

Tribes Ascend is a (heavily modified) Unreal 3 engine. Not CryEngine.

KhanHeir, on 06 July 2013 - 11:48 PM, said:

In B4 no one knows what PiP is or blames crytek.

The saddest and funniest part about MWO is the Atlas is roughly the size of nanosuit soldiers in Crysis yet we still have the lamest visuals, maps, scale and everything else.

Frostbite 3 Engine.





That said, CryEngine can do PIP, so...

I won't get on my MW:LL soapbox, but suffice to say that even CryEngine 2 would've worked.

Edited by Volume, 14 August 2013 - 08:25 PM.

[Further]

This...

Galenit, on 06 July 2013 - 11:33 AM, said:

Do you have ever played Tribes 2 or the F2P Tribes Asc.?
Around 200kph is normal for a light to sustain, you can go up to near 300 ...
Its not the internet, its the devs or the engine ...

[GingerBang]

Modo44, on 07 July 2013 - 08:47 AM, said:

Light can only travel so fast, servers can only cope with so much. Captain Obvious signing off.


Captain Obvious again: "150kph" can mean very different things in different games.

You do realize that the weapons you fire travel a lot faster than 150kph right? Especially weapons you fire while travelling 100+ kph.

Durrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr


Captain obvious is losing his touch.

Volume, on 14 August 2013 - 08:24 PM, said:

Tribes Ascend is a (heavily modified) Unreal 3 engine. Not CryEngine.



Frostbite 3 Engine.





That said, CryEngine can do PIP, so...

I won't get on my MW:LL soapbox, but suffice to say that even CryEngine 2 would've worked.

Volume, on 14 August 2013 - 08:24 PM, said:

Tribes Ascend is a (heavily modified) Unreal 3 engine. Not CryEngine.



Frostbite 3 Engine.





That said, CryEngine can do PIP, so...

I won't get on my MW:LL soapbox, but suffice to say that even CryEngine 2 would've worked.

So would UnrealEngine, and it would take a quarter of the time.

[I am]

Think the issue is that they don't want them going over 150. As it stands, it already feels too much like CoD, w/ all the twitch skill lights running about. Anything faster would exacerbate that issue.

[GingerBang]

I am, on 16 August 2013 - 02:11 PM, said:

Think the issue is that they don't want them going over 150. As it stands, it already feels too much like CoD, w/ all the twitch skill lights running about. Anything faster would exacerbate that issue.

So instead we are just going to leave it like an AWP party on DE_Dust2?

[Angel of Annihilation]

I am, on 16 August 2013 - 02:11 PM, said:

Think the issue is that they don't want them going over 150. As it stands, it already feels too much like CoD, w/ all the twitch skill lights running about. Anything faster would exacerbate that issue.

I have to agree with this. Lights running around at 140-150 kph are already very hard to hit. If you up the speed cap to 180-212 kph then they will be damn near invulnerable. Sometimes things have to be sacrificed for the sake of gameplay to keep things fun and balanced.

Note: I run quite a few light mechs so I am not trying to keep lights down or anything, rather I am just being realistic.

Edited by Viktor Drake, 16 August 2013 - 10:41 PM.

[Budor]

Vassago Rain, on 06 July 2013 - 02:39 PM, said:

This is a lie. EVery single scope in crysis 2 and 3 is a PiP.

No its not, its like in Battlefield 3. Everything zooms in even the stuff outside of your scope.

The only game i remember lately doing a "proper" scope was Red orchestra 2