21 replies to this topic

[Arrtax]

Hi everyone!
I know there has been some a lot of discussion on LPLs, but since I tested them today quite exhaustively I'd like to share my experiences:

I rebuild my standard PPC-Stalker (Standard300 2xPPC, 2xEPPC, 19DHS) into a LPL-Stalker (Standard300 4xLPL 21DHS), which is quick to do. (I wanted to try something different than using PPCs. You all know that PPC are VERY popular atm. )

So, LPLs are fun, I love the deep "wub-wub-wub"-sound and damage is decent.
BUT I would never use them in a competitive build. I would always prefer the PPC build.
Why?

• Overheating felt more or less the same, probably even more since you tend to fire more when you get closer.
  
• Damage is slightly more, but PPCs put the damage where it belongs since they don't have a burst length, so in the end PPC-damage is more effective and it's easier to target certain locations.
  
• Range is the the BIG advantage of PPCs/EPPCs. You don't have to get close to do good damage and if you get close the EPPCs do the trick. With LPLs you have to get close, take more damage and have less overall time to fire them.
  
• PPCs disable ECM

So LPLs need something to make them a viable choice as a weapon distinctive from PPCs or Large Lasers. There is a reason that at the moment almost nobody uses them. :/

They are supposed to be a low/medium range high damage weapon, so how could this be achieved?
Options:

• Increase damage (Yeah, the obvious one;) ). I think 12 would be okay, since damage is spread out. (But I'd rather have less heat.)
  
• Less heat generation (the other obvious one) Maybe 7.50 ?
  
• Longer range (wouldn't do that, that's what LLs and PPCs are for)
  
• Reduce weight/slots (impossible due to lore/mech builds)
  
• Reduce burst length to reduce damage spread (hmm, don't know about that one)
  
• Some other distinctive feature e.g. increased critical probability, since it fires in bursts. Other ideas, please?

I suppose even if 1, 2&6 would be changed most people would still rather use PPCs, but I'd like to give it a shot (or two ).


Your thoughts, esteemed community?

[Prezimonto]

The pulse lasers leave little dots behind. What I'd like to see is that each "dot" is a defined packet of damage, so each "wub" is dropping 2.65 to 3 damage (and yes increase the damage). It'd be nice to be able to see more easily where then damage actually wound up without having to refer to the paper doll. (essentially, an LPL becomes a short range quickly chain fired set of AC rounds) It compares reasonably well to small lasers chain fire(similar damage, similar heat).

Edited by Prezimonto, 29 June 2013 - 07:25 PM.

[Angel of Annihilation]

I just think they need to scale back the heat a bit.

Due to the shoot duration and cooldown, they are pretty much equal to a PPC in heat generation however the crazy short range ( range of a standard medium laser) is a major handicap for all that heat.

If they made them cooler then you would have a weapon that was the same weight as a PPC, but cooler and more damaging at the expensive of being a short range weapon.

[Arrtax]

Noone seems to care for neglected LPLs, everyone loves their PPCs.

[Lyoncet]

A reduction in ER/PPC muzzle velocity would help too. Along with solving some of the metagame problems PPCs in their current state present.

[Malora Sidewinder]

My competitive team, disheartened severely with the state of SRMs, decided to re-take brawling by using 2 LPL, 2 medium laser, ac20 atlas D with a STD350 engine.

we had the build for a week, doing great with it, before they increased the heat on the LPLs.

now, the build is quite literally unusable. the "miniscule" heat buildup they added makes the mech shutdown on the THIRD alpha instead of the FIFTH alpha... a *huge* difference for a dedicated brawling build.

Leave it to PGI to see the game, and say...

1. SRMs have been unusable for months
2. PPCs have been given huge indirect buffs and are the only weapon useable in 8 mans currently.
3. the matchmaker is terrible.
4. we're adding new content at a rate that would bore a turtle to death.
5. nobody likes the current meta

and draw the conclusion of

LETS NERF THE **** OUT OF LARGE PULSE LASERS

[Deathlike]

LPL: Somehow magically OP in the ECM protected offices of PGI

Edited by Deathlike, 01 July 2013 - 05:30 PM.

[Thumper3]

No one uses LPL because, as you already found out, the PPC does more and everyone is running boat PPCs still. You can't bring a LPL to a PPC fight. At current specs the choice is between LL and PPCs (still not a choice due to pinpoint and boats, but a closer coin toss). LL have decent range and lower heat.

As has been said, it's the heat that needs to be addressed to make them playable. LPL do more damage but they have almost half the range. And by more damage? It's 10.6 to 10.....LMAO, really? 50% the range for 0.06% more damage? Not really a balanced trade off.

PPCs have the range and the pinpoint, LPLs should have noticeably higher damage and lower heat. 12 damage and 7.5 heat would make them a solid consideration with no changes to the range.

I love pulse lasers, all sizes.....love that sound.......hope to see LPL being more viable.

[627]

i run a 2xLPL 2MPL Quickdraw and it is kinda fun. The sound is awesome and you can deal good damage at high heat costs.

Range isn't so much of an issue (at least as long as you don't get alpine), quickdraw is fast enough to get close to the enemy.

What i don't like is the heat; yes ppc is hotter, but you don't fire it as often as a LPL which means you could deal more damage in the same time if you could afford the heat costs.

On the other hand, LPL have to deal with normal LL - there's nearly no build where you can manage 3 LPL without overheating really fast but there're plenty of possibilities for 4 LL. And 4 LL will do more damage at greater range.

LPL is not a bad weapon, but there're better ones out there. it's the LB-X of the Lasers... but with the coolest sound

[Malora Sidewinder]

PGI stated that the change was based around a desire to have all the pulse lasers scale with each other in terms of damage and heat.

I'd like to state definitively that symmetry should ALWAYS come second to balance in a game.

[N a p e s]

Malora Sidewinder, on 01 July 2013 - 11:09 PM, said:

PGI stated that the change was based around a desire to have all the pulse lasers scale with each other in terms of damage and heat.

I'd like to state definitively that symmetry should ALWAYS come second to balance in a game.

They also said that this was a first attempt and that they would be tweaked once data had been collected with the current stats. Hopefully, they have that now and they can give them the buff they need to be somewhat competitive.

And yes, I agree that it might be a while before the tweaks to the LPL and that we're all still waiting for SRMs as well.

[MeiSooHaityu]

The LPLasers seem ok, but they are definently geared more for close in warfare.

I would use them on a mech with...
A: Already good heat effiecency
B: A close in brawler.

The heat is where it is to help prevent boating. You can't complain you hate boating, and then want the heat lowered so you can boat it LOL.

The PPCs (ER and normal) probably need this sort of treatment.

[Lightfoot]

Pulse Lasers get a crit chance each pulse, so on damaged mechs you would be more likely to get a Kill credit. I think this is right. Pulse lasers do seem to get the kill when alot of mechs are firing on one target.

[Clit Beastwood]

I run a 4xlpl stalker very frequently, and it owns if used properly. I *have* to hug walls, i.e. in river city, I need to basically skirt the cliffs and engage anything that comes nearby. Stay away from the water! I really prefer the 4xlpl to erppcs, as I can keep chain firing for a very long time before overheating.

[Malora Sidewinder]

Fierostetz, on 02 July 2013 - 12:06 PM, said:

I run a 4xlpl stalker very frequently, and it owns if used properly. I *have* to hug walls, i.e. in river city, I need to basically skirt the cliffs and engage anything that comes nearby. Stay away from the water! I really prefer the 4xlpl to erppcs, as I can keep chain firing for a very long time before overheating.

chain firing just reduced your overall DPS, which is critical right now.
A single LPL at a time will take over a minute and a half to kill an atlas if your'e both fresh... and that atlas is under no such time restrictions to kill you.

[Oogalook]

I say, make the LPL unload all its shots in a shorter timeframe. Though their DPSs may be identical, a PPC is far superior to a LPL at any range because all its damage is applied to a single torso section, meaning that damage distribution is less of a factor. With faster damage-dealing, the LPL's inferiority to a PPC can be adressed, even without boosting its DPS.

An example of this effect: The pinpoint damage of an AC40 Cat makes it superior to a MLAS alpha Hunchie because it all hits one torso section, even though the AC40 has inferior DPS.

[Arrtax]

It's a crazy and most likely stupid idea, but it just came to my mind : What if Pulse Lasers were continuously firing weapons like MGs, with higher DPS the larger they are. That would make them VERY distinctive from Lasers/PPCs and would emphasize the "Pulse" = fast-firing aspect.

I'm not sure if I would like this, but I'd appreciate your thoughts on it.

[Eric darkstar Marr]

You guys are so so funny, thank you PPC build for allowing my dual LPL 6 MG Jager to eat you alive.

Example: 4 PPC (er) STK firing away at me in a 0-15m range doing a whooping 4 damage while I whittle it away with LPLs and ***** them to death with my MGs.

Example 2: You run heavy PPC HGN 732 you hit me with a guass but notice you take more damage then dishing out so you run and when you run you run into my team while I am still alive laughing all the way.

Example 3: You run a dual ML LRM heavy build I walk right up to you and melt your face to nothing.

Is my mech competitive it sure has been I am not a brawler mech I am a JAGER melting and chinking your face off. Beware


LPLs have there place you just have to be smarter then your average poptart and think outside the box.

[Ngamok]

I understand why they did what they did (to make all Pulse Lasers have the same DPS and HPS), but it really destroys the LPL with the higher heat since it's better to just take the ER PPC for similar damage and heat with the option to snipe.

[Urdnot Mau]

Well, if your intention is to make other weapons more atractive, you could either make PPCs less atractive or make other weapons more atractive. So, buff almost every other weapons or nerf PPCs. IMO every laser should have a shorter duration, so they would be more on pair with other instant-damage-weapons and would make some lasers builds more viable and present in the game