34 replies to this topic

[Rippthrough]

Yep, said it before, but there's no reason for it, it just hurts the varients of light mechs that can't boat medium lasers.

[ApolloKaras]

Rippthrough, on 07 July 2013 - 05:26 AM, said:

Yep, said it before, but there's no reason for it, it just hurts the varients of light mechs that can't boat medium lasers.

Unless you are just boating machine guns, you're always going to need more than just 2 heat sinks.

[Rippthrough]

Saxie, on 07 July 2013 - 06:24 AM, said:

Unless you are just boating machine guns, you're always going to need more than just 2 heat sinks.

Yes, but last time I checked, two is less than ten.

[stjobe]

Back in closed beta, we didn't have the 10 heatsink rule, and only got the heatsinks that came with the engine. If we wanted more than those, we had to pay both CB, tonnage, and crit slots. It screwed lights over something fierce.

I'm not too keen on going back to that - even running with double heat sinks, the seven that comes with a 195 rated engine isn't enough to properly cool a Commando's loadout. It was a constant bone of contention with us light pilots.

[Vercinaigh]

Wilson, on 06 July 2013 - 05:35 PM, said:

Good Post Was Here.

I see nothing wrong with that either, maybe something i should add to my post too...props.

[Mudhutwarrior]

I think the thing that bothers me most is you spend good money on doubles but cant hang them due to slot limitations. You should be able to run singles also. Having a couple in the legs in a water match would be great and no build I know of can do this with doubles.

[Matthew Ace]

You don't need 10 heat sinks? Fine, we'll just break two of your 6+ engine crits.

[LordBraxton]

I am with the OP

the LORE\TT\CANON reason for 10 heatsinks

is that mechs heat up a lot when simply running, and with less than 10 basic operations like moving around overheat your mech

since this game's heat scale has nothing to do with TT

why should these limitations persist?

[blinkin]

Training Instructor, on 07 July 2013 - 04:51 AM, said:

When I played tabletop, I ignored the rule, because it was arbitrary and didn't make any sense. It requires a max of two heat sinks in tabletop to offset the heat penalty from running. Therefore, that is your baseline for what a mech actually needs.

A locust using minimal heat weapons such as a medium laser and four machine guns shouldn't need 10 heat sinks, or double heat sinks, because it gains no benefit from them.

in table top you get 10 free heat sinks inside the engine and all engines got them.




in closed beta we didn't have the heat sink limit for a long time. so players would mount a tiny engine inside their gaussapult wander into the caldera on caustic and then explode just from the heat in the crater.

did you know that a mech with only 4 heat sinks will build heat by simply running forward? (tried it with my ballistic hunchback during the early days)

we do not need more ways to min/max your mech builds. one of these days people are going to demand that they be able to run their stalkers without engines or some trash along those lines.

[Unbound Inferno]

Unbound Inferno, on 06 July 2013 - 06:54 PM, said:

A little history maybe?

The BT rules have it so when constructing a mech you have 10 heat sinks at no weight cost.

In MWO they incorporated that into the mechanics of the engines. It is why the smaller engines appear so light. In reality their weight should be so many tons more and the heat sinks should be placed at no weight cost.

The rules do not state where you must place them, but there is a set one for the amount available to be placed inside the engine. PGI simplified it by having the engines come standard with so many internal heat sinks, adjusted the weight for what doesn't fit and have you required to place a couple externally.


Nothing wrong with that and no reason to change it. Well, exactly. Perfectionists may argue the point, but it follows the rules just fine to me.

Eric darkstar Marr, on 06 July 2013 - 05:48 PM, said:

All engines in TT came with the base 10 HS, just a FYI

I had to look up the rules to refresh my memory.

Before it gets lost, I should probably point out the specific Battletech rules that are the original start of the mech design incorporating the 10 heat sinks.

Every mech comes with a standard 10 heat sinks. They come at no cost of weight, but must be placed.

Each engine has a limit to what is available for 'internal' space you can place heat sinks based upon the engine rating.


In the mechanic of MWO they simplified it by forcing every engine to carry their maximum amount of that 10 HS then requiring the remainder for the smaller as external heat sinks. To make the system work they reduced the engine weight by the tonnage of the heat sinks.


It follows the rules as it is, and should not be changed. Every mech (or in this case engine) comes with 10 heat sinks and that's that. If you don't like placing them cause of crit sizes, perhaps you should use single versions?

[Rippthrough]

It's not placing them, it's the weight. There is no need for 10 heatsinks on a spider 5K even with an ERLL firing constantly in caustic crater.

[ApolloKaras]

Rippthrough, on 07 July 2013 - 01:00 PM, said:

It's not placing them, it's the weight. There is no need for 10 heatsinks on a spider 5K even with an ERLL firing constantly in caustic crater.

I'm not sure why in the world you would remove the 10 "free heat sinks" in battle tech anyway...

1) You are not saving any weight... It's an illusion.
2) If all you care about is the crit spaces that it takes then run singles... Even a STD 175, you'll only need 3 crit spaces. . Even my craziest designs will not have any limitations because of the crit spaces...


Stripped Commando:

Equipment:
Int. Struct.: 43 pts Standard 0 Crits 2.50 Tons
Engine: 175 Fusion 6 Crits 7.00 Tons
Walking MP: 7
Running MP: 11
Jumping MP: 0
Heat Sinks: 10 Single 3 Crits .00 Tons
(Heat Sink Loc: 1 HD, 2 CT)
Gyro: 4 Crits 2.00 Tons
Cockpit, Life Supt., Sensors: 5 Crits 3.00 Tons
Actuators: L: Sh+UA+LA+H R: Sh+UA+LA+H 16 Crits .00 Tons
Armor Factor: 0 pts Standard 0 .00
Total: 14.50 Tons

Here's the Heavy metal pro complete load out if you need it.

https://www.dropbox....ed_commando.htm

In MWO:
Internal structure is 2.5 Tons
Engine is 9 Tons
3 "Free heat sinks" 3 tons
Total: 14.5 tons

The weight is the same. If the additional heat sinks tonnage bothers people make the engines heavier...

EDIT: Format issues....

Edited by Saxie, 07 July 2013 - 02:34 PM.

[Unbound Inferno]

Rippthrough, on 07 July 2013 - 01:00 PM, said:

It's not placing them, it's the weight. There is no need for 10 heatsinks on a spider 5K even with an ERLL firing constantly in caustic crater.

Read my post. The weight is not there, its the adjusted weight of the engines. It is why they appear so light. Its the MWO mechanics that adjusted the weight of the engines so they don't fuss with a code for the HS weight.


EDIT: er, I should type better.

Edited by Unbound Inferno, 07 July 2013 - 02:35 PM.

[Rippthrough]

Unbound Inferno, on 07 July 2013 - 02:32 PM, said:

Read my post. The weight is not there, its the adjusted weight of the engines. It is why they appear so light. Its the MWO mechanics that adjusted the weight of the engines so they don't fuss with a code for the HS weight.

Yes, but if you get rid of the need to have 10 you can still save that weight and make the worst lights more viable.

[ApolloKaras]

Rippthrough, on 07 July 2013 - 02:42 PM, said:

Yes, but if you get rid of the need to have 10 you can still save that weight and make the worst lights more viable.

Read my post... please...

You are not saving any weight...

Edited by Saxie, 07 July 2013 - 02:43 PM.