6 replies to this topic

[Skyfaller]

Devs,

Please consider the following:


AMS:

Make missile warning message only function if the mech has an AMS system installed. It's common sense really.. if you have an Anti-Missile System it should by default include the warning.

Moreover, if LRMs require to equip artemis, load ammunition, have LOS and keep lock on target until the LRM hits then why is the mech on the receiving end not have to equip something to get his missile warning?

Ferro-Armor:

Simple change: Make it consume 7 slots not 14. This is to make it more functional as a 'lite' weight reduction option for mechs. Let's face it, nobody uses it really since endo-steel is significantly better so why not make it more attractive by reducing the slot cost in half? After all, its not even providing half of the tonnage the endo-steel frees up to begin with.

Last but not least: Consumables.

The consumable of artillery, UAV and air strike are rarely used because their impact is insignificant and you only get one shot with them...plus they're expensive.

Why not make them more palatable by making them be consumed at the end of match (if they are used) but have unlimited use while in the match? They already have a timer built in (10 seconds in between I believe?) and that is good enough.

In short, I buy the consumable and if I use it in the map, I can fire it every 10 seconds if I wish so...but at the end of the map it vanishes from my mech's inventory.

[soarra]

clan FF armor takes up less slots so no need for change
i like the idea about the missile warning only if you have AMS

[Skyfaller]

Clan is a long ways off and it could simply be made to cost the same slots but free more tonnage.

[Strum Wealh]

Skyfaller, on 07 July 2013 - 02:11 PM, said:

Clan is a long ways off and it could simply be made to cost the same slots but free more tonnage.

Still, what you're asking for is essentially "poor-man's Clan FF" (consumes 7 criticals and grants 20% more armor points per ton) and/or "better Light FF" (IS tech that debuts in 3067; consumes 7 criticals and grants 6% more armor points per ton).

If anything, normal IS FF should retain its normal properties (consumes 14 criticals and grants 12% more armor points per ton), and have a small (no more than 10%) universal damage reduction element added to it; Clan FF should likewise retain its normal properties and have the same universal damage reduction element added to it.

What one ends up with would be:

• Standard Armor: 32 pts/ton, 0 criticals consumed, 0% damage reduction
  
• IS FF Armor: ~36 pts/ton, 14 criticals consumed, 10% damage reduction against all weapons
  
• Clan FF Armor: ~39 pts/ton, 7 criticals consumed, 10% damage reduction against all weapons
  
• Hardened Armor (introduced in 3047 for IS & 3061 for Clans): 16 pts/ton, 0 criticals consumed, 50% damage reduction against all weapons
  
• IS Laser-Reflective Armor (introduced in 3058): 32 pts/ton, 10 criticals consumed, 50% damage reduction against energy weapons only (0% damage reduction against ballistic, missile, and artillery weapons)
  
• Clan Laser-Reflective Armor (introduced in 3061): 32 pts/ton, 5 criticals consumed, 50% damage reduction against energy weapons only (0% damage reduction against ballistic, missile, and artillery weapons)
  
• Stealth Armor (introduced in 3063, IS only): 32 pts/ton, consumes 2 critical slots in each arm, leg, and side-torso, 0% damage reduction
  
• IS Reactive Armor (introduced in 3063): 32 pts/ton, 14 criticals consumed, 50% damage reduction against missile & artillery weapons only (0% damage reduction against energy and ballistic weapons)
  
• Clan Reactive Armor (introduced in 3065): 32 pts/ton, 7 criticals consumed, 50% damage reduction against missile & artillery weapons only (0% damage reduction against energy and ballistic weapons)
  
• Light FF Armor (introduced in 3067, IS only): ~34 pts/ton, 7 criticals consumed, 10% damage resistance against all weapons
  
• Heavy FF Armor (introduced in 3069, IS only): ~40 pts/ton, 21 criticals consumed, 10% damage resistance against all weapons
  
• Ferro-Lamellor (FL) Armor (introduced in 3070, Clans only): 28 pts/ton, 12 criticals consumed, 20% damage resistance against all weapons
  
• Modular Armor (introduced in 3072 for IS & 3074 for Clans): +10 pts/ton, 1 critical consumed per location (except Head), 0% damage reduction

With the above, each armor type (especially those whose defining characteristic is already a form of damage resistance) retains its unique characteristics (both positive and negative) and the stock builds' internal setups remain unchanged, while the FF family receives a not-insubstantial benefit that makes it a more competitive choice versus both Standard Armor and Endo-Steel Structure.
As such, this is arguably a far more palatable solution.

[Leafia Barrett]

Regarding consumables, I'd actually think they'd be better if they DIDN'T just vanish forever when used. Even if it took significantly more GXP and CB to obtain them, I'd totally use a UAV if it was one use per match instead of one use per purchase.

[Skyfaller]

umm.. ferro armor does not give you extra armor. All it does is reduce the weight of your existing armor by a measly 10%.

Thats why I'm saying that for MWO the ferro is obsolete and pointless to use.. endo steel gives more for the same crit slot cost. If ferro was reduced in slot cost it would be worth using.

[Strum Wealh]

Skyfaller, on 07 July 2013 - 04:11 PM, said:

umm.. ferro armor does not give you extra armor. All it does is reduce the weight of your existing armor by a measly 10%.

Thats why I'm saying that for MWO the ferro is obsolete and pointless to use.. endo steel gives more for the same crit slot cost. If ferro was reduced in slot cost it would be worth using.

I know what FF does; I wrote out what Clan FF does ("consumes 7 criticals and grants 20% more armor points per ton") and what Light FF (developed by the IS in an attempt to mimic Clan FF) does ("consumes 7 criticals and grants 6% more armor points per ton").

For additional clarity:

• "As shown on the BattleMech Internal Structure Table, the maximum armor potential for a 25-ton humanoid BattleMech is 89 points. With that in mind, Andrew finds that attaining 89 points using Inner Sphere ferro-fibrous armor will cost his design another 5 tons (89 points ÷ [16 Base Points per Ton x 1.12 Inner Sphere Ferro-Fibrous Multiplier] = 4.967, rounded up to 5 tons)."
  
• "Even with Clan ferro-fibrous armor, he decides that the weight of the maximum armor level is extreme at 15.5 tons (293 Points ÷ [16 Base Points per Ton x 1.2 Clan Ferro-Fibrous Multiplier] = 15.26, rounded up to 15.5 tons). Brent decides to shave a couple tons off the armor weight. Installing 13.5 tons of Clan ferro-fibrous armor, Brent determines that his Gladiator will have a fi nal armor factor (total armor value) of 259 points (13.5 tons x [16 Base Points per Ton x 1.2 Clan Ferro-Fibrous Multiplier] = 259.2, rounded down to 259)."

These are the verbatim examples from page 56 of TechManual.

Inner Sphere standard FF Armor (as opposed to Light FF or Heavy FF) has a armor-point-per-ton multiplier of 1.12 - that is, each ton (1000 kg) of IS standard FF Armor has 1.12x the number of armor points as the same mass of Standard Armor.
Likewise, Clan FF Armor has a armor-point-per-ton multiplier of 1.20 - that is, each ton (1000 kg) of Clan FF Armor has 1.20x the number of armor points as the same mass of Standard Armor.

However, a BattleMech's maximum armor load is determined not by the tonnage of the armor, but by the number of armor points!
For example, each of the Marauder, Orion, and Mad Cat, as 75-ton 'Mechs, is limited to a maximum of 231 armor points (doubled 462 armor points for MWO).

• A Marauder with 231 armor points of Standard Armor would be carrying 14.44 (rounded up to 14.5) tons of armor.
  
• An Orion with 231 armor points of IS FF Armor would be carrying 12.89 (rounded up to 13.0) tons of armor.
  
• A Mad Cat with with 231 armor points of Clan FF Armor would be carrying 12.03 (rounded up to 12.5) tons of armor.

Each of the above would not be able to carry any more armor, because the limiting point ("the number of armor points that the internal structure can support") has been reached. For example, one cannot load 14.5 tons of IS FF onto the Marauder, even if the tonnage and critical spaces were made available, despite the fact that the same 'Mech can handle 14.5 tons of Standard Armor - because the upper bound of the armor load is completely independent of the tonnage of said armor!

The advantage to the FF family of armors over Standard Armor is, specifically, that it provides a greater number of armor points per unit of weight (that is, more armor points per ton) - which allows a given 'Mech to mount the same amount of armor (that is, the same number of armor points) for less weight (at the expense of critical spaces), or to mount slightly more armor (up to the weight bracket's armor point limit!) for smaller tonnage savings (and still at the expense of critical spaces).

So, now that it is (hopefully) clear how the armor relationships work...

By rule, Endo Steel has always reduced the weight of the nternal structure by 50% (from 10% of the 'Mech's maximum mass for Standard Internal Structure, to 5% of the 'Mech's maxumum mass for the ES Internal Structure).
The number if internal structure points (which is what determines the maximum number of armor points that can be applied to each location) is the same, regardless of which material is used.
The weight savings for Endo Steel, however, come at the expense of critical spaces - 14 for IS ES & 7 for Clan ES (in other words, ES for each tech base costs the same number of criticals as the same tech base's version of FF Armor).

For every weight bracket from 20 to 100 tons, the weight savings from changing the internal structure from Standard to ES will always be greater than the weight savings from changing a full armor load from Standard to FF - this is as true in TT as it is in MWO and every MechWarrior game that preceded it.

Reducing the critical space cost of FF changes the layouts of the stock builds, as well as invalidates future content (specifically, Light FF), and opens the slippery slope of "reduce the crit requirements for AC/20, UAC/20, DHS, and Endo-Steel - you did it for FF!!!", all of which (and possibly more) make the critical space cost reduction an exceedingly bad idea.