116 replies to this topic

[Inflatable Fish]

better, although it is still mucho fragile, even for a Blackjack. you don't really need AMS if you're going with an XL 235 engine: you're quick enough to duck into cover when Betty squeals at incoming missiles, and the ton and a half you gain can be used for upping your armour.

and you should move the ac/2 ammo to your center torso and head slots. that way you negate the risk of ammo explosion, since if you lose either of the above, you're dead anyway. if you keep it in the arms as you do now, if you lose an arm there's going to be collateral damage to your side torso, which with an XL engine is p. much a death sentence.

one more thing: if you think the ac/2 is a sniping weapon, you're wrong. it deals too little damage per shot and requires too much uptime on target to do damage that matters, and as such it is a (very efficient and reliable) suppression weapon, especially if you run two of them in a mech like the BJ. if you want to snipe with it, though, switch from shooting mechs to shooting crickets.


so here is your latest build, optimised for your intended use:

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...d33330f80e03a2a

Edited by Inflatable Fish, 19 September 2013 - 03:00 PM.

[Tilley]

Eagle, we are only being critical of your design for your own survival. Your latest build you say is so that you can snipe with AC/2's and medium range laser people who find where your hiding. The problem with this is that AC/2's do a horrible job of sniping. Will it annoy the enemy? Yes...Will they seek you out for destruction, probably. Sniping mechs IMO need to have ECM or be in a group that has an ECM. Sniping mechs also need punch, because they are typically going to bob up and down to avoid any counter fire. You think your the only one that can reach out and touch someone? What happens when you hit that Jager from 1500 meters and just make him yellow all day? Then he is going to come get you and turn you into scrap. Get rid of the AC/2's unless your going to do medium to short range brawling. If you want to snipe, put a Gauss or AC/20 on one arm and pack more ammo. Just my "two" credits good sir.

[Whiteagle]

Inflatable Fish, on 19 September 2013 - 02:57 PM, said:

better, although it is still mucho fragile, even for a Blackjack. you don't really need AMS if you're going with an XL 235 engine: you're quick enough to duck into cover when Betty squeals at incoming missiles, and the ton and a half you gain can be used for upping your armour.

and you should move the ac/2 ammo to your center torso and head slots. that way you negate the risk of ammo explosion, since if you lose either of the above, you're dead anyway. if you keep it in the arms as you do now, if you lose an arm there's going to be collateral damage to your side torso, which with an XL engine is p. much a death sentence.

Will do.

Inflatable Fish, on 19 September 2013 - 02:57 PM, said:

one more thing: if you think the ac/2 is a sniping weapon, you're wrong. it deals too little damage per shot and requires too much uptime on target to do damage that matters, and as such it is a (very efficient and reliable) suppression weapon, especially if you run two of them in a mech like the BJ. if you want to snipe with it, though, switch from shooting mechs to shooting crickets.

It has 180m max range on and one eighth the cool down of a Gauss Rifle, for one seventh the slots and nearly a third of the tonnage...
And the SAME Projectile speed!

Edited by Whiteagle, 20 September 2013 - 06:41 PM.

[kesuga7]

This is the best build i could find with the BJ-1 and the best i played with

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...28768ab844773d5

The damage might not look like much but a pair of ac 5's (120 ac 5 ammo ) and medium lasers on the arms with jumpjets is great

Spoiler

Now poptarting is risky but if your enemy misses a alpha on you then pop up again before he weapons recharge and always use the jumpjets for brawling other mechs and aim down with the arms to hit
Take out a small laser for cockpit or leg armor if you want

• xl 225
  
• 89.1 kph
  
• 256 armor
  
• Two ac 5's
  
• Two medium lasers
  
• Two small lasers
  
• 120 ac 5 ammo

******************



The best i could do with the BJ - 3

with 4 pulse and 2 mediums i packed 18 doubleheatsinks in this standard engine baby
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...f8389aa991007d3

You could also do 3 medium pulse 3 medium lasers and 19 double heatsinks

Spoiler

• Standard 225
  
• 89.1 kph
  
• 256 armor
  
• 4 medium pulse lasers
  
• 2 medium lasers
  
• 18 double heatsinks
  
• one jumpjet

Edited by kesuga7, 23 September 2013 - 01:46 PM.

[Tiger Shark]

I just started playing the Blackjack, it might be my new favorite mech.

BJ-1 is the 235XL AC20 + 3ML. Just fun to use the AC20 on a fast platform. Running full speed, torso twisted, and seeing the AC20 shell curve and hit the target is incredibly satisfying for some reason.

The current one I use more, even though I bought it initially just to get speed tweak on the BJ-1, is the BJ-1X with 280XL and 6ML. It feels like a halfway point between a Jenner F and a Hunchback 4P. I don't have the hand eye coordination for the Jenner, and was just not good at managing the heat on the 4P.

I haven't figured out BJ-1DC or BJ-3 builds yet that are more fun for me than the 2 above that are not the same load outs +/- JJ or speed.

Edited by Tiger Shark, 23 September 2013 - 04:45 PM.

[xengk]

Tiger Shark, on 23 September 2013 - 04:42 PM, said:

I just started playing the Blackjack, it might be my new favorite mech.

BJ-1 is the 235XL AC20 + 3ML. Just fun to use the AC20 on a fast platform. Running full speed, torso twisted, and seeing the AC20 shell curve and hit the target is incredibly satisfying for some reason.

The current one I use more, even though I bought it initially just to get speed tweak on the BJ-1, is the BJ-1X with 280XL and 6ML. It feels like a halfway point between a Jenner F and a Hunchback 4P. I don't have the hand eye coordination for the Jenner, and was just not good at managing the heat on the 4P.

I haven't figured out BJ-1DC or BJ-3 builds yet that are more fun for me than the 2 above that are not the same load outs +/- JJ or speed.

The AC/20 BJ1 is a very common build for that variant, I run that build from time to time but usually replace the AC/20 with a Gauss to poke target at range.
With the new charge up mechanism, my firing window per match have been reduced and I don't plan to be a dedicated sniper with the BJ1, I only carry 2t of ammo for 20 shots before going in with 4xMLaz.
It can be fun to stick a LBX10 on it too with 3t or 4t ammo.

My BJ1DC however is a dedicated ballistic range mech, with 2xAC/2 with 5t ammo as main weaponry and 6xSLaz or 3xMLaz backup.

Im still experimenting with my BJ3 after the new PPC heat.
Without access to 250 rating engine for 10 internal DHS, running PPC on this build is very hot.
Currently settling on 2x ERLLaz and 4xMLaz, with as much DHS I can cramp into the frame.

[NRP]

Whiteagle,
If you want to snipe, use a Gauss rifle. It will be much more effective than AC/2s. When they changed the firing mechanics, they also increased the projectile speed. As a result, it's better than ever for sniping.

[IllCaesar]

No AC2 on the BJ1 until CW drops, which will have weight limits. The AC2 can't snipe, and its just too weak of a loadout for brawling. Me running 2x AC2 + 2ML + 2SL would work decently if the other team was limited to certain weights per drop, but they're not. Its kind of obsolete at the moment - so, so many mechs can do it better. I'm finding running around with JJs and an LBX or AC20 is working out decently, but every drop I make with AC2s is almost a waste of time, as I do very little with it.

I imagine the situation is the same with the BJ1-DC.

Now I have a question about the BJ-1x, the laserboat variant without JJs. Is that also basically obsolete at the moment? Because I see the Hunchback-P which can probably do just about the same. It has a more flexible torso, an extra hardpoint, and can move at about the same speed, while being able to mount a bit more armour. Does it really have much use at the moment, or no?

[Ruccus]

MarsAtlas, on 27 September 2013 - 04:45 PM, said:

Now I have a question about the BJ-1x, the laserboat variant without JJs. Is that also basically obsolete at the moment? Because I see the Hunchback-P which can probably do just about the same. It has a more flexible torso, an extra hardpoint, and can move at about the same speed, while being able to mount a bit more armour. Does it really have much use at the moment, or no?

With max engines the BJ-1X can go quite a bit faster than the HBK-4P (116.8kph vs 98kph including speed tweak). I'd think for a light mech pilot the 116.8kph BJ-1X is a lot scarier than the 98kph HBK-4P because the BJ-1X would be able to stay on their tail for twice as long (assuming a light mech running with around a 130kph top speed). Also, Blackjacks tend to get CT cored more often than side torso cored so it can run an XL engine without as much of a disadvantage as the Hunchback (the hunch is really easy to target).

[Whiteagle]

NRP, on 26 September 2013 - 12:19 PM, said:

Whiteagle,
If you want to snipe, use a Gauss rifle. It will be much more effective than AC/2s. When they changed the firing mechanics, they also increased the projectile speed. As a result, it's better than ever for sniping.

I was actually able to try the Gauss on the Trial Atlas...

While it IS a good sniping weapon, the firing warmup and delay make it a poor snapshot, so no peakaboo snipes.
The Blackjack doesn't have enough armor to tank a mid-ranged alpha, so waiting for a shot is a bad habit to be in.

[IllCaesar]

Whiteagle, on 01 October 2013 - 02:35 PM, said:

I was actually able to try the Gauss on the Trial Atlas...

While it IS a good sniping weapon, the firing warmup and delay make it a poor snapshot, so no peakaboo snipes.

Actually if your mech is fast enough and you know where the enemy is before you pop out of cover, you can charge up your shot before you even leave cover. Of course, this relies a familiarity with your mech's capability and proper timing.

Remember, you were using the Gauss Rifle in a mech that moves at 52 KPH and has a huge battlefield profile.

The BJ-1 and BJ1-DC can move up to 85 KPH (93 with tweak). For say, PPCs or LLs/ERLLs, the BJ-3 can move at the same speed, but the BJ1-X up to 106 (117 with tweak). Granted, they're not the best at this job speed wise, but the only real alternative that also has a small profile is the Cicada, which have the ballistic hardpoints in the torso, so they cannot aim as accurately.

[xengk]

Whiteagle, on 01 October 2013 - 02:35 PM, said:

I was actually able to try the Gauss on the Trial Atlas...

While it IS a good sniping weapon, the firing warmup and delay make it a poor snapshot, so no peakaboo snipes.
The Blackjack doesn't have enough armor to tank a mid-ranged alpha, so waiting for a shot is a bad habit to be in.

The key to Gauss is to stay out of sight; either being 600+m away from the brawl or in the shadow of your team assault.
I have a BJ1 Gaussjack that I play time to time, just need to keep a low profile until you ran out of ammo and walk in to pick off damage mech with your MLaz.

[Red Line Pilot]

This my BJ1-DC

2x Medium Laser
4x Small Pulse Laser
2x Machinegun
AMS
Std 235
14 DHS

I kinda like it. It is very heat efficient and the sustained dps is very good for a mech this weight.
It sounds crazy but in this mech i got 750+ Dmg matches. If you get the chance to circle an Atlas witt one of your buddies the damage counter rises quickly ^^

***********

This is my BJ 1

2x AC5
2x Medium Laser
2x Small Laser
1 Jumpjet
XL210

It is has the same armament as kesuga7's BJ but without the suicidal armor ditribution ;-) I didnt want to make the cheesy AC20 Blackjack so i tried it with 2 AC5's.
It is also pretty heat effficient but runs out of ammo too quickly for my taste. I'm considering buying a smaller engine so i can put in one more ton of ammo.

[Denolven]

I see many AC20 and Gauss builds, paired with lasers, telling you to brawl. But I think that without real arms, brawling is not a good idea. You simply can't protect you paper thin torso. Flanking works, but you seriously can't take more than 1-2 salvos.

So what I play is a medium/long range hillfighter support with lots of utility, an optimized version of the Mini-Dakka that was mentioned only once:
Mini-Dakka

why it works:

• very good range
  
• very versatile (high mounted weapons, JJ, decent speed, good suppression ability), good positioning and repositioning
  
• with torso armor in the 30s, nobody ever shoots at the legs or arms, plus you can hide them via hillfighting
  
• shake effect can completely blind the opponent, helping not only you, but your whole team

when it does NOT work:

• when facing a light in a 1v1 (at least not with my bad aiming skills, you are probably better)
  
• when getting aggro

suggested modules:

• advanced zoom
  
• advanced sensor range
  
• (cool shot - sometimes you need alot of time to wrestle down that Atlas in front of you, and the AC2s run hot)

The Mini-Dakka is a great asset for the team, while still being able to handle a 1v1. It provides AMS for the team, lots of blinding, and lots of dps. All you need is an ally who draws attention.


I do 400+ damage regularly, 600-700 damage every 5th or so game (when ammo runs out, I know it's a 700 damage battle - and yes, ammo still runs out ).

Edited by Denolven, 02 October 2013 - 04:09 AM.

[Red Line Pilot]

Although you can make some nice builds that do well occasionally in pug matches i think the chassis is inferior to many light (jenner) and mediums (HBK, CN). You might have 10 tons an a similar laser mech (jenner) but that jenner will murder you in a 1v1.
The only "good" build i've seen so far is the cheesy AC20+3medlaser BJ. Jump brawling with AC20 kinda negates the mechs poor armor.

Edited by Red Line Pilot, 03 October 2013 - 02:58 AM.

[Inflatable Fish]

Red Line Pilot, on 03 October 2013 - 02:54 AM, said:

Although you can make some nice builds that do well occasionally in pug matches i think the chassis is inferior to many light (jenner) and mediums (HBK, CN). You might have 10 tons an a similar laser mech (jenner) but that jenner will murder you in a 1v1.
The only "good" build i've seen so far is the cheesy AC20+3medlaser BJ. Jump brawling with AC20 kinda negates the mechs poor armor.

so if something is simple and effective, it's bound to be branded as cheesy?

[Red Line Pilot]

mmm, yeah, pretty much, but not necessarily though More for mechs with a high alpha+jumpjets. There enough nice "straight forward" mechs, AC20 BJ is just not one of them.
I kinda dislike where the AC20 is going in MWO. Atm you can't go wrong with equipping it. (apart from a raven or cicada of course)
Also i think the BJ arms are for machine guns or AC2's. The AC20 is more of an assault mech's weapon or a medium that is build around it. Try to think in MW4's load out's. The hard point system used in MW4 gives a good indication which weapons can go where.

[Denolven]

Red Line Pilot, on 03 October 2013 - 02:54 AM, said:

jenner will murder you in a 1v1.

1. That depends on player skill and weapon loadout - if you can hit the Jenner, poof goes the Jenner.
2. BJs can handle 1v1, just not brawling. The design simply isn't made for brawling.

I have killed many assault mechs in a 1v1, so don't tell me it can't 1v1. Just stop running into close range like mad. Get a good hill position and some mid/long range weaponry and there you go.
But yes, with bad aiming skills like me, a brawling duell against a Jenner is bad. That's why I stay in the vincinity of team, you know?

It's not about being able to do everything. It's about doing what you can do well, and avoiding what you can't do well.

[Red Line Pilot]

You are right.

I find it 10x easier to fight an atlas than a Jenner. But the jenner has kind of the same loadout as the BJ with all the energy hardpoints that's why i compared them. Take the JR7 F and HBK 9P, the BJ 1X is exactly in between.

The BJ 1X is a 4P with more speed for and weighs less and very fragile. It is my favorite so far though

Edited by Red Line Pilot, 04 October 2013 - 06:51 AM.

[NRP]

It feels like there are issues with PPC hit detection/damage registration. I've got a BJ-3 with 2 PPCs and 2 MLs that I really like. I put lots of shots on people, but I just never seem to get kills. My damage totals and kills don't seem to correlate with the number of shots I land. It's frustrating. My AC/20+2 ML BJ-1 on the other hand just wrecks everything. Great finisher. Lots of kills. Don't know why there is such a difference between these two mechs.